PVC pipe/glue

gatotsu77

gatotsu77

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May 17, 2006
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Ok, so I've been doing a lot of reading, checking out a lot of photos for ideas, and I believe I've convinced myself that I'd like to convert my 55g to a reef tank. I don't have any plans to be getting into SPS corals, but I might eventually, once I learn more about the tank. At first I plan to just start with a basic structure of live rock, a nice deep aragonite sand bed, and once its cycled a couple soft corals/mushroom corals. As I learn more, I'll venture into LPS and more delicate inhabitants. As far as livestock, I'd ultimately like to have a marine betta, a coral banded shrimp, a pistol shrimp, a yellow watchman goby, a few red-legged hermit crabs if compatible, and perhaps one or two other small fish. (I'm trying to remember what exactly I was looking at the other day... something like fire hawk... something or other. I just remember that it was a rather vibrant red, preferred to hide in holes/caves within the rockwork, and got to be something like 3" max size. I'll post about that once I get home and check out what I was looking at the other day)

So, now that I've gotten that all out in the open, and I am always open to suggestions, here's my question. What type(s) of PVC and glue are reef-safe? I've done a couple quick searches on AC but have come up empty handed. I was thinking about setting up a PVC structure to support a pile of live rock, and give it a bit more of a volumetric appearance, without having it be just solid rock. (hoping to increase hidey holes and the such for critters) While I'm at it, I may as well state that I'm planning to have an 8 x 54w HO T5 fixture with mixed 10,000k and actinic bulbs, 2 koralia 1's and a koralia nano, and likely an AC 30 or something similar on the back for carbon. (I might use my XP2 for this, with no other filter media in it, as it would give me a chance to direct the flow a bit more efficiently)

In all likelihood, I will have some gear up for sale soon, preferably for pick up only. This includes a 130w CF 6700k light, XP3 canister filter, and possibly a few nice chunks of driftwood and plants. (though posting this info on the reef-side of the forum is probably kinda useless... I'll post another thread for all the freshies later :p:)

At any rate, I am open to any suggestions and opinions. I would love to have a marine betta, so if there is anything which would be incompatible in my setup, please give me a heads up and I'll look into alternatives. Thanks. :D
 
Normal LO-VOC PVC glue you pick up at hardware stores is fine in reef tanks. Color is your preference, I prefer the clear over the blue or grey myself. I have used the stuff from home depot and Ace hardware.

Marine Bettas get BIG. Not a fish I would recommend in a 55. The others sound fine. The Flame Hawkfish is the one red one your thinking of. Here is a picture:
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Why not use the XP3 filter you already have on the marine tank? Just use the trays to put small pieces of live rock on and one tray to use carbon or other media of your choosing.

Those Koralias sound too small for that tank.. I would go with something like 2 #3s and a #2. The #1's and Nanos are only good for tanks 10G and smaller.

That is a great light for that size tank and you will be able to do any coral with that, but ideally if you went SPS corals you really would like to have a sump at that point, but it sounds like that will be a while away which is the norm.. it took me 6 years of slowing learning reefs, going with softies like xenia and mushrooms in the beginning, a year later got into LPS like frogspawns, then it took me 5 more years until I got the right equipment and felt comfortable enough to try SPS corals.
 
Just the person I was hoping would chime in. Thanks Ace. :D I actually got the idea from your 75g tank, thinking that setting up the live rock on a lattice of PVC would give it a really nice aesthetic feel. (though mine will not have the functional flow yours does)

I had read that marine bettas only get to be 8" total length.... but if you recommend against it, I'll not pursue one. What would you recommend in its place? I will admit, the Flame Angel is yet another favorite of mine, but I am also aware that on occasion they pick at coral.

That Flame Hawkfish is spot on, the same fish I was observing at the LFS. Fun little guy to watch... would love to see one in my tank. Colors are nice, but I also want fish with personality traits or some peculiar habits. This is part of why I'd love to get a pistol shrimp (preferably tiger pistol) and a yellow watchman goby duo. Come to think of it... I think I saw that in your tank too. :p:

I'm amazed to be hearing that Koralia 2's and 3's would be safe in a 55g tank... I was under the impression that they'd be generating too much water flow for the coral. I understand that I'd want to have enough to keep them happy and not too much to make them not open, or worse, shear them off. What overall level of water flow would you recommend for a 55g tank? I was assuming that 1000gph of total water movement was more than enough... is there even a general guideline as to what would be adequate? (like 15x turnover, 20x, etc.?)

One day I'll build a much larger reef tank... likely something along the lines of 200 gallons, but in a custom shape so as to keep it about 18" deep. (have it be fairly long, and very wide front to back) I'd go acrylic so that I'd have the option of setting up a sump, and probably have something like a 75g sump. By then, I'll be able to afford the MH lights, and all of the really crazy corals I'd like to get. For now, I'll just stick with pumps on my 55g. :) Oh, and do you think the XP3 would be worth using for flow rather than getting a Koralia in its place? I don't remember who it was, but someone mentioned to me that live rock rubble in a canister could lead to trouble. I cannot remember why, or I'd clarify further.
 
I have seen a few marine bettas in reef tanks and they never seem happy. They stand out because they are so large, but even then, every tank I have seen them in the betta just sits in the back behind the rocks. They always seem very depressed looking to me even though they are great looking fish.

Flame Hawkfish have TONS of personality.. almost as much as a porcupine puffer. Very entertaining fish and they will watch you watching them all day long.. so don't get stuck in a staring contest with them because they will win. :)

Flame Angels are also a good fish, and even if they are coral nippers, it really isn't as much of an issue in beginner/softie tanks. They won't pick on most softies, maybe xenia, but I doubt they will like the taste so even if it does pick initially it will probably stop. I have seen more reef safe Flame angels than I have seen bad ones.. to me, the coral beauty is the one "reef safe" angel that is the most likely to pick at corals.. I say 50/50 chance.. other dwarf angels are less likely to nip. Probably down to 20% chance with a flame angel.

Ya, rethinking the flow.. actually on a 55 I would go with just 1 #3 and 1 #2. Their numbers they state about GPH are over rated. I admit I did the same thing as you in the beginning.. went with the koralias that I thought would work best for me just by reading the specs, then after putting them in my tank come to find out they were not nearly enough flow as I hoped. I had a #3 and a #2 in my 29G tank along with a Mag7 (700GPH) return pump from my sump, this after going with a #1 and #2 initially, thinking that would be enough. A Koralia3 will just barely reach from one end of the tank to another on a 55G.

Here is a pic of my 29G when I had it running, #3 in the top left, #2 is in the bottom right behind the rocks.
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I'd hate to see an unhappy, potentially sulking fish in my tank. I'd also be worried about its overall health. Granted that they are beauty, I'll keep the notion of a marine betta in the same group as keeping a small shark. Probably never going to happen.

I did enjoy watching the Flame Hawkfish at the LFS. I could sit on their couch and watch that tank for hours... and they really didn't have all that many fish in it. What other peculiar fish/inverts might you suggest? Can Flame Hawkfish tolerate members of their species in the same tank? (thinking about going with 2 if they're safe together.)

I would also like to eventually get a Tridacna clam, Likely a Derasa. (though there are several of them I would absolutely love to have) Do you think with the 8x54w HO T5 setup I'd have enough light for one of these creatures? I do know that I could not even consider one until I've had the tank up and running for potentially a year or more, but it is something I'd like to look into for the future.

I've heard some mixed information, how large do Flame Angels get? Is there anything else about their temperament I should be worried about?

Ok, a single Koralia 3 and a single Koralia 2. How could I best configure them to provide optimal flow within the tank, and minimize dead zones? Would the setup be improved at all using two Koralia 2's and a single Koralia 1? Or possibly even three Koralia 2's? (Just tossing ideas out there) How would this scale with the flow of the XP2 and XP3 I have? (if I were to use them, I'm still debating that presently. It might be nice to get them out of the picture)

Your 29g tank was beautiful. I hope I can create a similar effect with my 55g tank. (I'd like to have the front left corner open sand, and gradually have a built up slope of live rock and coral towards the back right corner)
 
I don't believe flame hawks get along with each other. I am not sure about other hawks though.. may get along with a geometric pygmy hawk.. I have heard the spotted hawk can be a little agressive.

Flame angels get as big as any other dwarf angel, maybe 3" at most. I wouldn't really be worried about adding a flame angel, they are very common and I think one of the top 3 fish I see bought for SW tanks.. #1 being a clownfish, #2 flame angel, and #3 toss up between a yellow watchman goby and a yellow tang. My one gripe about flame angels is their coloring fades over time.. years.. when young that are so bright and vibrant, but I watched my neighbor have one for 5 years and at the end it was almost white and had no black bars on it anymore (I kept telling him he needed to put it back on the grill to get those stripes back as a joke). I guess the same could be said for most fish though.. most fish don't look as good as adults but there are exceptions.

Well, 3 #2s would be great also, give you more ability to tweak the flow, but at some point you will say to yourself there is a line between to much equipment in the tank vs functionality. It may be a little more work tweaking a 2/3 than it is 3 2's but it is one less "black egg" in your tank you have to look at. A decision each person has to weigh out themselves because it is all personal preference.

A clam would do great in that tank.. one thing clams need is calcium and phytoplankton to feed... along with a stable tank. That is something I would wait at least 6 months before adding.. you can add many other corals before then.. especially softies.
 
Awesome. :D Just wanted to say thank you for taking so much time to answer my questions. I'll keep reviewing species profiles, talking with the folks at the LFS, and ask opinions of other members on here too... and likely bring back to this thread a list of several other potential inhabitants. If you had to go with a general rule of thumb, assuming large is along the lines of a clown fish, medium more like the Flame Hawk, and small being a Goby, what would be an appropriate stocking level for a 55g tank? I'd rather have it a bit on the under-stocked side myself, and just have a few unique individuals. I plan to have about 40 lbs of live rock set up on a PVC lattice to space it out a little more, and make good use of that surface area. I believe I mentioned earlier I'm planning to go with a 4" aragonite bed, which might be topped by another inch of live sand. (or potentially some LR rubble... still working out ideas, but I want that gradually sloping look and to have an open sand area)

As I think about it, I agree, 3 Koralia's in the tank might look a bit much. I personally don't find equipment in the tank to be as bothersome as some people do.... but I would like it to be nice aesthetically to all eyes viewing it, not just my own. (girlfriend will likely see it a lot, and my family will see it on occasion as well)

Once I get the tank running, stable, and hiccup free for at least a few months, then I'll really start experimenting with calcium doses, to see what kind of regime I'd need for a Tridacna clam. One other silly question about lighting: would I be better served with the 8x54w HO T5, or with 2 150w metal halides? I know the halides produce more heat, and in a medium sized bedroom, that may not be all-too desirable. (I'm also going to have a couple 120mm fans cooling the surface of the water, potentially even rig an 80mm fan to each MH light to keep the overall heat looming above the tank to a minimum) I guess my biggest worries are heat and whether I have enough, or unlikely, too much light.

This will all be a work in progress, and I'll try to keep this thread up-to-date with what's going on. I keep a rather busy schedule, and still have my discus living in my 55g tank, so this will not be an overnight change. I'd expect to have the tank set up and starting its cycle within a month, maybe 6 weeks.
 
Stocking a tank to proper levels is something I am not good at. I know what should be.. but I can't resist cool fish, so I am not the best person to ask that.

On my 29G I had 12 fish.. some big ones like a 12" engineer goby, 5 year old maroon clown, and cherub pygmy angel along with a bunch of other smaller gobies. I had a sump/refugium on that tank, 2+lbs live rock per gallon AND I did 5G a day in water changes just to be able to keep 12 fish in a 29G. I know I have a weakness with fish and since there are times I just can't resist, I have to do the extra maintanence to keep the tank stable. Heck, I am sure you have read, but I still do 50% weekly waterchanges on my new tank.

For years I tried to resist MHs.. even went to 6 T5s on my 29G.. but I have to admit, MH do kick serious butt with coral growth and that shimmer effect really is cool to see. 2 150's would be nice on that tank as well.. but if you went with the 8 T5s you wouldn't have any problems with lighting needs either.. and you can turn off 4 of the 8 bulbs for the first couple months to save $ because a tank without corals really doesn't need that much light.

Sheash.. a mod moved this thread? Mod, why not just change the title because most of this thread is about general sw questions, setting up a tank, fish compatability.. just one question was on PVC/Glue and because of that it gets moved to the DIY section?
 
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Ace25 said:
Sheash.. a mod moved this thread? Mod, why not just change the title because most of this thread is about general sw questions, setting up a tank, fish compatability.. just one question was on PVC/Glue and because of that it gets moved to the DIY section?
Click to expand...

Judging from the title, multiple references to lighting, water motion, filtration, etc., it seems to belong here. The livestock references seem like more of a sidetrack to me.
 
My apologies, I kinda tried to cover too many bases in one thread. I'll get into the livestock in another thread, and focus more on the mechanical aspects of the tank setup in this thread.

A couple 150w MH's are very tempting... especially given what I've read about coral growth and the such. I just worry about the heat issue. My bedroom gets fairly warm in the summer as it is (tank is located in my bedroom, the bedroom is on the 2nd floor, and the A/C vent doesn't blow cold air when the A/C is on) but I've got a few ideas to help counteract that, or at least to some extent. (Sometimes its nice living at home) I do plan to set up a couple cooling fans, and see where that gets me. If I can keep the tank at a nice 78 degrees, I'll be set. If it keeps climbing up to 80+, I plan to have several water bottles with 4-6 ounces of water in them to freeze and swap out of the tank. I may actually add a bit more volume to each, as I've experimented with my freshwater tank and using this method to cool it down. By the time a whole bottle thawed, in about 45 mins, it had lowered the tank temp on average by half a degree fahrenheit. If I'm stuck at work and its REALLY hot out, I could have my folks swap a couple of those out during the day for me to help keep it cool. (If its a consistent problem, I'll shell out and get a 1/10th hp chiller)
 
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