Question about dosing with the EI method.

[standardbyker63]

I've been doing some reading about dosing with the EI method, and it's is very appealing, especially after seeing how affordable dry ferts are. My question is regarding CO2 levels. Is there a way to measure CO2 in ppm?

The tank is 29g. I'm currently using the DIY yeast solution with two 2L juice bottles injected through a small powerhead and I also have Flourish Excel. I have a drop checker and the solution is light green. Is there a more accurate way to measure CO2?

Also, my tank is not heavily planted. I'm currently trying to grow it in so it's more heavily planted. I guess I would categorize it as medium planted? I'll attach a picture below to show you what I'm working with. I'm currently growing: amazon sword, lloydiella, ludwigia, anubias, dwarf hairgrass.

I'm using a coralife 65w compact fluorescent fixture for lighting that is approximately 4 inches above the water.

My filter is a Sunsun 302, so I have pretty good flow. All my plants sway a bit, so I think the circulation is decent.

Basically, I'm trying to find the right balance of nutrients for my tank. Decrease lighting? Increase CO2? Utilize a DIY CO2 reactor (similar to the Rex Griggs model)? Should I be using a little less nutrients that what is suggested by the EI dosing method since I'm not heavily planted yet?

Any and all input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

This picture is about 3 weeks old, so there's been quite a bit of growth since then, unfortunately I don't have any updated pics at the moment.

 

[Canuck]

As far as measuring CO2, a drop checker is pretty well as accurate as you can get. Another good indicator is fish and algae, watch your fish for signs of stress due to CO2 levels, generally if they are hanging around the top you may want to back off on the CO2. Growth of algae is also an indication that nutrient levels and CO2 may be too low.

As far as ferts, I would start with full EI dosing and work down, if its more then your tank needs. Watch your plants if you do this any slow in growth should be treated with an increase of ferts. Watch for algae, they can also be great indicators of low levels of nutrients. GSA will become more prevalent with low PO4, fluctuating CO2 can favor hair algae and BBA. BGA in my experience always becomes a problem with low NO3. Abundant nutrients will not cause a problem but you also don't need to waste them. Err on the side of excess though. With a 50% water change you can never have more than 2 weeks of ferts in your tank based on no consumption. It tends to be easier to avoid algae then get rid of it. If I can make a poor analogy for EI dosing, light is the gas pedal, CO2 and nutrients are the fuel. You want to keep the fuel tank full at all times and but go gently with the gas pedal. The biggest chore you will have is making sure the CO2 is plentiful and consistent which can be difficult with DIY.

If your going to use EI, then follow the regime. Don't try to use techniques from other methods. Lots of other methods work but like EI they work as a system and one shouldn't try to mix and match.

Good Luck.

 

[standardbyker63]

Thanks a lot for your detailed response Canuck. That's exactly the kind of info I was looking for. I've been battling hair and BBA algae for quite some time. I'm sure it's due to my inability to control my CO2 well enough due to it being DIY and also due to lacking some nutrients since I've only been dosing with Flourish Comprehensive. I'm looking into pressurized and hope to be able to afford it soon. In the mean time I'll try to stabilize my CO2 and order some dry ferts. Do you think that it would be beneficial to put a shut-off valve on my CO2 line and shut off the CO2 when the lights are off? It currently just runs non stop.

Thanks again!

 

[_Ty_]

your tank is small enough that the inconsistency in diy co2 doesn't play out the same as it would in a larger tank. 2*2liter bottles - if your are remixing yeast on a rotation schedule - are able to produce the volume of co2 necessary for plants to be happy. The most efficient and quiet method of diffusion I found for smaller tanks 20-120g is the Red Sea Co2 Reactor 500. But I recommend adding a third, completely empty bottle after the yeast bottles . The extra bottle helps by collecting co2 at pressure as a sort of crude pressure buffer/collection tank. If you get creative with piping and check valves, no co2 will be wasted when changing yeast batches.... both yeast bottles are separately piped and check valved into the co2 chamber bottle....etc.



Using a rotation, the above third bottle trick, and using consistent yeast+sugar recipe, can yield fairly decent overall consistency. It worked for me for over a year until I got the $300+ bucks for my 2 valves, 2 regs, 5lb tank, etc. ***TOTALLY WORTH IT****


I agree that drop checkers are one of the most accurate, yet actually affordable, methods of determining co2 concentration. I have one, but I simply took it out as I never actually used it. I now use double regulated, double needle valve'd, pressurized co2- which is so accurate that once I found the "sweet spot" I just set and forget.

LAST but not least, don't "turn off" your co2 at night "because the plants don't need it". In short, the plants don't use enough during the day to cause such a radical spike when the lights are off that the co2 is going to go up and kill fish... It just isn't going to happen. I't would be difficult to create this situation unless the co2 levels were already to high to begin with, and your fish are gasping at the surface. FURTHER, the complete stoppage of co2 at night is a MUCH more drastic change on water chemistry than not, as this can actually cause a half to one full point of pH swing in a small tank in just a few hours- scary stuff that.



As for light, for me its all about 2 key factors.

Intensity
why?
-----plant requirements (low, med, or high) + fish are happy with the intensity
-----water depth (the deeper the water, the brighter lights one needs

Color ( aka ... wavelength, spectral range, Nanometers, Kelvin, etc.) most plants primarily use chlorophyll type "A" and therefore need redish light mostly


I use two 6500k and two 10000k lights on my 55. the 6500's provide the light for photosynthesis while the 10000k provide good viewing light. It is usually best to have really bright lights with a short photo-period each day as opposed to dim lights for longer periods. The latter of which is algea inducing. Unless you are using lots of low light plants and are not dosing ferts, like if you wanted a tank with fish that are timid in bright lighting.

I can't tell you if you have enough light because simply telling me how deep the tank is, and how many watts the light is, etc, etc. doesn't mean beans to me unless I see it with my own eyes.

I agree with canuck about how the light is like a gas pedal but I feel the need to elaborate.... If you are dosing adequate co2 and ferts and with too low of lighting, plants will still grow and out-compete algae for nutrients. But some of your fancy high light plants will wilt. It is when the lighting is too high or on too long in relation to co2, or any one macro-nutrient, that lower order plants like algea will begin to flourish like crazy.

 

[standardbyker63]

Ty, thank you so much for the response. No doubt you guys have spent a lot of time trying to figure out the perfect balance for your tanks. Please take note that I'm doing the same. I've been spending a lot of time reading through the forums. Sometimes it's just easiest to post specific questions regarding my problems and then getting a specific answer, as you and Canuck have done above, so your input is greatly appreciated. Thanks for sharing your experience. I've become pretty obsessed with achieving a beautiful tank like some of the ones I've seen posted in the forums and it's been a lot of time, money, and experimenting to see what works. My fiance thinks I'm crazy whenever I come up with something "new" I want to buy or adjust, but it's all in pursuit of having a clean balanced tank. I've had the tank for two years now, but have only really gotten into the planted and biological side of things for about a year now, where as I realize many of you have been doing this for a long time, so any input you can give is great in helping me achieve my results faster and cheaper.

I have no doubt that I have enough light. My plants are doing very well right now. As I recall, Ludwigia is a higher light plant, and it's growing fairly well. Unfortunately I have some algae that also doing well, no doubt due to my lack of macro nutrients. I'll take all your advice to mind and try a few things, as well as order some ferts and give this a good try.

Thanks again for sharing the wealth