question about macro ferts

[chilligirl]

Okay, I have a thought here. I've not been adding macros, thinking, well, there are fish in there, and fish poop - voila! plant food!

However, someone else's post, where they mentioned not putting in a biological filter because the plants did that made me think, perhaps my first thought, about the fish supplying the plant nutrients, is wrong.

See, the tank was already cycled, and ammonia and nitrites were reading zero, with only very light trace nitrates, BEFORE I added the plants. Upon adding the plants, my trace nitrates disappeared. Right now, my water tests the same as tap water, with a slightly higher pH. Ammonia 0, Nitrites 0, Nitrates 0.

I'm thinking I've added more demand for waste (the plants plus the bacteria in the filter), without adding any more supply (didn't add more fish). Is this right?

Do I then need to start adding macronutrients?

And another thought, as a cheapy option, if I DO need to add more nutrients, would it work to add the water from when I clean/vacuum my goldfish tank to the big tank when I do water changes? Or would that just make a mess, since it's once a week, instead of every day (which is what I'm inclined to believe)?

 

[chilligirl]

Sorry, should probably clarify, since this is a separate thread from my previous one (plants effect on pH).

The planted tank is a 90g, with 136W HO lighting. I'm not running CO2. Dosing every other day with excel and once or twice per week with trace nutrients (Flourish). Stocking is in my sig, plus a pair of kribs. Filters are a Penguin Biowheel with extra biomedia in it, and a Rena XP3 with mechanical, bio, and peat. No charcoal anywhere in the system (I only use charcoal if there's a problem).

 

[loaches r cool]

Well, your demand for ferts is low since your tank is low on the ol wpg scale and your not using co2 either. Just curious about your lights. Are the T5HO? do they have individual reflectors? And how heavily stocked with plants are you? Just a few plants or are you planning on not even being able to see your substrate?

If your really testing 0 for nitrates than you probably have your answer. Always maintain at least 10ppm nitrates if your goal is to have growing plants. The other thing, and I a not positive, but I dont beleive relying on fish waste alone will provide for all the macros like potassium. Not positive about that though.

 

[jmhart]

With the low light setup, you shouldn't have to dose fertilizers, however, as mentioned, if you are reading 0 nitrates, you clearly need some nitrates.

However, in a low light setup, a level of 10ppm nitrates is too high. Shoot for 5ppm. You have to be careful dosing ferts in a low tech system, because it's very easy to add too much and cause an algae bloom. Without high light and co2, the addition of ferts is going to be asking for algae.

 

[chilligirl]

thanks for the feedback.

I've got two light strips, and a total of three bulbs. The first strip is a GLO 48" strip with two 54W T5 HO bulbs and a nice reflector in it. The second is the strip the tank came with - a 28W 48" T5 HO Coralife fixture and bulb.

I've got the GLO fixture over the middle of the tank, and it throws a good amount of light, all the way to the front glass, and from end to end. The Coralife fixture is behind it. Thus, the back of the tank is slightly darker (although still lit right to the bottom), so that's where I've got the val, and it's doing well.

The GLO light is on for 12 hours per day, the Coralife is on for about 13 or 14 hours per day.

Since I added the new plants and started dosing with Excel, the bit of algae which had started to show up after upgrading the lighting has disappeared. I must have enough light, because the plants are all growing, and the pink hygro has gotten downright VIBRANT - much brighter than it was when I got it. The tank looks really bright, and actually provides enough light to light my whole den! From outside the door, when the curtain is drawn (there's a curtain door rather than a solid one), it looks like it's either daylight or there's a light on in the room.

As for what I'm looking for for planting levels, I guess somewhere between moderately planted and not being able to find the substrate

 

[fishorama]

I think you need to cut back on the length of time your lights are on, 8-10 hours is enough. More encourages algae. Some people do 4 hrs on, 2 off then 4 on, I shoot for 10 but my husband often "wakes up" the tanks early when he's home in the am. When he was off work for a while we had more algae.

 

[jones57742]

chilligirl

1) you have really done your homework and

2) I am by no means as plant guru (I currently have black spots on my plants which I have never previously observed and have been successfully in eliminating) but I do have some experience which may "tick something in your brain" which will help.

OK, I have a thought here. I've not been adding macros, thinking, well, there are fish in there, and fish poop - voila! plant food!

However, someone else's post, where they mentioned not putting in a biological filter because the plants did that made me think, perhaps my first thought, about the fish supplying the plant nutrients, is wrong.

See, the tank was already cycled, and ammonia and nitrites were reading zero, with only very light trace nitrates, BEFORE I added the plants. Upon adding the plants, my trace nitrates disappeared. Right now, my water tests the same as tap water, with a slightly higher pH. Ammonia 0, Nitrites 0, Nitrates 0.

The above is really a ton of questions but
in my simplistic thinking
macro nutrients including but not limited to nitrate and phosphate are necessary as plants utilize these nutrients for the production of chlorophyll
but
micronutrients are mostly catalysts but must be present in order for plants to produce chlorophyll.
Unless phosphates are present in the tank (the phosphorus is also a micro nutrient) then your plants are "going hungry".

I'm thinking I've added more demand for waste (the plants plus the bacteria in the filter), without adding any more supply (didn't add more fish). Is this right?

Do I then need to start adding macronutrients?

And another thought, as a cheapy option, if I DO need to add more nutrients, would it work to add the water from when I clean/vacuum my goldfish tank to the big tank when I do water changes? Or would that just make a mess, since it's once a week, instead of every day (which is what I'm inclined to believe)?

I "just somehow" do not believe that the latter would be appropriate.

A much simpler method would be to add cheap food to the tank as a concentration of heavy metals and detritus would not be present (ie. overfeed).

The planted tank is a 90g, with 136W HO lighting. I'm not running CO2. Dosing every other day with excel and once or twice per week with trace nutrients (Flourish). Stocking is in my sig, plus a pair of kribs. Filters are a Penguin Biowheel with extra biomedia in it, and a Rena XP3 with mechanical, bio, and peat. No charcoal anywhere in the system (I only use charcoal if there's a problem)Me Also.

IMHO opinion you got the dosing product frequencies reversed.
IMHO your description of the products is incorrect.
Flourish is the macro/micro fert and Excel is to some extent a substitute for Co2 injection.

thanks for the feedback.

I've got two light strips, and a total of three bulbs. The first strip is a GLO 48" strip with two 54W T5 HO bulbs and a nice reflector in it. The second is the strip the tank came with - a 28W 48" T5 HO Coralife fixture and bulb.

I've got the GLO fixture over the middle of the tank, and it throws a good amount of light, all the way to the front glass, and from end to end. The Coralife fixture is behind it. Thus, the back of the tank is slightly darker (although still lit right to the bottom), so that's where I've got the val, and it's doing well.

The GLO light is on for 12 hours per day, the Coralife is on for about 13 or 14 hours per day.

IMHO lighting durations of longer than 12 hours is counter productive (I did a ton of research prior to illuminating my sump with MH and adding plants to the sump but unfortunately I am old and cannot find a good URL.)

Since I added the new plants and started dosing with Excel, the bit of algae which had started to show up after upgrading the lighting has disappeared.

Yes: plants are more efficient consumers of nutrients than algae.

I must have enough light, because the plants are all growing, and the pink hygro has gotten downright VIBRANT

Yes you do: a red pigmented plant appearing VIBRANT is a siginificant indicator.

As for what I'm looking for for planting levels, I guess somewhere between moderately planted and not being able to find the substrate

I have had hard earned experience here. The placement of plants is somewhat critical with respect to the "location need a bunch of light plants" and "the location of don't need a bunch of light plants".

TR