Question for people with potting soil/mineralized top soil substrates

Summary:

Boiling/baking soil: can use immediately without a drain of O2 levels in the tank or NH4. Messy,stinky, spouse might get angry

Nothing: just add soil and add fish 1-2 months later: more water changes required, but no different than ADA AS.......and Amano seems to eek by just fine.......

DSM: nothing needed to prep, just add plants and treat liek a terraroium for 4-8 weeks, then fill. Can be done with any enriched/rich sediment with N and P already in it. No water changes required, zero algae on plants for the first 4-8 weeks, roots get well established and transition is better once filled.

I question whether mineralization is ever a requirement or part of any real useful process here. If frequent large water changes are done the initial 4-8 weeks period, same as ADA's protocol, then there should be little issue. Bacteria will break it down in the aquarium either way.

Now I got a fish bone to pick..........why is it that we need to mineralize soil outside the aquarium, but we are suppose to bomb the aquarium with Ammonia for fishless cycling and not just do the filter ina bucket for 3 -4 weeks instead and not bother to measure NH4? Why is one done in tank and the other not? Is there any real need either way here? I cannot see any real reason for support either way myself on any logical basis. Anyone got a better notion of "why"?

Regards,
Tom Barr
 
Tom, Thank you for explaining. My son is starting chemistry next year so hopefully I can pick his brain and help remedy that lack in my education.
I misunderstood the reason for the mineralization. Thanks for clarifying.
I realize that the sterilization is a boilogical re-set. I planned on adding in mulm from an existing tank, running over a year, to jump start the new tank.
Luckily I have a very tolerant partner.
I have been growing aquatic plants for about 3 years. I am in process of setting up a new tank so started to research first and came across the mineralization process which is new to me.
I have been growing plants in Flourite & decided to explore alternatives.
DSM makes perfect sense after seeing the emerged growth in my paludarium.
My goal is to give the plants the best start for healthy growth.
I have not done fishless cycling w/ammonia either, so can't answer that question. I always have an extra filter running that can be switched to a new tank.
Do you think there would be any benefit (or drawback) to using local, Middle Suwannee, river substrate? It appears to be (quartz) sand, mud sediment, organic matter, & there are deposits of limestone and grey clay.
 
steffish said:
Tom, Thank you for explaining. My son is starting chemistry next year so hopefully I can pick his brain and help remedy that lack in my education.
I misunderstood the reason for the mineralization. Thanks for clarifying.
I realize that the sterilization is a boilogical re-set. I planned on adding in mulm from an existing tank, running over a year, to jump start the new tank.
Luckily I have a very tolerant partner.
I have been growing aquatic plants for about 3 years. I am in process of setting up a new tank so started to research first and came across the mineralization process which is new to me.
I have been growing plants in Flourite & decided to explore alternatives.
DSM makes perfect sense after seeing the emerged growth in my paludarium.
My goal is to give the plants the best start for healthy growth.
I have not done fishless cycling w/ammonia either, so can't answer that question. I always have an extra filter running that can be switched to a new tank.
Do you think there would be any benefit (or drawback) to using local, Middle Suwannee, river substrate? It appears to be (quartz) sand, mud sediment, organic matter, & there are deposits of limestone and grey clay.
Click to expand...

Well some of this stuff is common sense, some of it folks get some weird notion.....and then suggest it as a basis for doing it.....and it does not make sense often times, but "sounds good". It might work well.....but not for the reasons claimed.

Without looking at all the observed facts and other examples, we might leave ourselves open for being proven very wrong. If so, let it go and move on to the next question.
Some will and do not do that.

That's troublesome.

I am happy to see folks using soil more.
In this regard, MTS threads are good.
More folks should try enriched sediments.

I support that, just question things a bit more myself.

I have been to the Suwanee, use to go weekly to the lower Suwanee Wildlife refuge.
Mostly to feed the fire ants, deer flies, horsefiles, no seeum's and ciggers. Of course the mosquitos. Croc if they get lucky. Maybe a Eastern diamond back.

The soil there is really good and it's a nice river still. You can often find plant beds in the rivers in your region, so take from there. It'll take about 8 weeks for things to settle down in any sediment that's been pulled up and then added to an aquarium. Does not matter what is done to it first.

I can debate this(taking sediment and exposing to air etc, and then placing it back under neath water and a cap etc.) because it's something I have done and measured, so have many others. We use paltinum tip redox probes and leave then in different soils to measure the reduction after flooding that occurs. These probes are left in place the entire time and we use a reference cell to make sure the Redox measure is correct.

Techy stuff etc......but it's all done for good reason.
Plant roots will influence the Redox considerably also, so once the tank is full of plants, the sediment is a very different animal entirely. It's like a huge massive pipe network pumping O2 into the sediment during the day. This feeds the bacteria and they congregate around the roots.
 
Tom, I'm about 50 miles upriver and it is beautiful and endlessly fascinating. Although the water is quite low, the sturgeon are jumping, which is amazing to watch - from shore! http://www.mysuwanneeriver.com/index.aspx?nid=345 has quite a bit of interesting & hopefully useful information, including historical data & monitoring of water conditions(Ph, temp, TKN, K, Etc.) at observation stations along the river.
Also a good place to look for driftwood.:)
I realise there are processes at work in the river well beyond what I can replicate in a box of water, but I'm hopefully getting the important factors that can be translated/adapted to my limited environment.
Is a cap on soil strictly necessary or is it mainly for esthetic reasons?
Am I correct in my assumption that DSM will reduce or eliminate the risk of parasite & disease transmission by imposing a quarantine period that breaks the infection cycles?
Would you know if terrestrial (root-knot)nematodes can survive in an aquatic environment?
Fire ants are definitely a consideration in drying soil outside. I tried to sterilize a small batch of soil in the microwave oven & it took 11 minutes ! before they all stopped moving!
Techy stuff is good exercise for the brain! I want to know how & why things work(or don't). The more I learn, the more I realise I don't know. The internet is an astonishing smorgasbord of knowledge. And misinformation- check the facts over & over. So it is great to have reliable teachers like you who can present reasoned arguements, supporting data, & further references.
Methodical experimentation leads to innovation. Aquarium keepers are always looking for better products and ways to maintain and/or improve the well-being of our wet friends.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge and answering my questions!
 
It's an unfortunate observation that "Common sense" is not that common.
 
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