Question on my numbers

T

tank3544

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Jul 10, 2005
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My wife and I started up a 20 gallon tank 2 Tuesdays ago. We're trying to get the tank to cycle so we can take our original fish out of the 10 gallon they are in and transfer them over.

We currently have barbs in the 10 gallon to transfer over when the cycle is complete. So Monday we put 4 barbs in the new 20 gallon tank to get the process started. We'd really like those fish to live of course but we were kind of expecting one or 2 to die off in the cycling process. They're dying at an alarming rate and I'm not sure what to do. We only lost 2 fish total trying to cycle the original 10 gallon tank. And that was spread over a period of 2 weeks.

One fish was dead Wednesday morning 2 days in. Thursday one fish began swimming upside down and sideways and finally kicked off today. One of the other ones sits under the lip of the filter and dosen't move. Just about an hour ago number 4 of 4 started floating down to the bottom, bouncing off the rocks, floating to the top and repeated that until it died. So 3 of 4 dead and the only survivor dosen't move.

So in order to be able to cycle the darn tank we just went to pick up 4 more fish. These ones seem alot healthier zipping here and there and eating much much better than the others.

Basically I'm looking for any advice I can get to prevent them from dying off like this. Unless I don't know enough and lots of them have to die like this to get a tank cycled.

Here's the stats:
20 Gallon tank
3 of 4 barbs died
5 barbs currently in the tank
Ammonia very close to .25
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 0
Total Hardness somewhere betwen 0 and 25
Total Alkalinity somewhere close to 0
PH approx. 6.6
Day 6 cycling tank

I apologize for the length and any help is much appreciated!
 
Many people here use fishless cycling. I personally have cycled 3 tanks with fish and have never lost a fish--1 5.5, 1 10, and 1 55. Barbs are not the greatest fish for cyling. The best is your ubitiquous zebra danio. But, that is not the most important part of fishy cycling (in my opinion). There are basically three things that I consider "must do" if you want to fishy cycle. The first is have a heavily planted tank. I add as many plants as I can afford to my tanks initially, at least a dozen. If you don't want to have a planted tank, get something that you can float like anachris or water sprite. In my extremely low light tank I have java fern, java moss, red melon sword, cryps, and a few I can't identify. Lot of plants. Secondly, I stocked at a lower level, enough to get the cycle going, not too much to overwhelm the system. 4-5 hardy fish, danios, possibly pristella tetras, something hardy (usually hardy=cheap in at the store). I used tiger barbs that I had in my initial 3 gallon tank (I babied those 4 fish in my apt. for 6 months with daily 75% water changes until I got my house and could get a 55 gallon), I would not necessarily recommend those fish because they aren't considered hearty, but it was what I had. And knowing what I know now I wouldn't keep 4 tiger barbs in a 3 gallon! Lastly, frequent water changes are essential to a fishy cycle. I changed 15 gallons out of my 55 gallon at least 2x a week for the first 3 weeks or so.

I am not scientific at all, but the plants will help use up the "bad stuff" and frequent water changes will do the rest. After 3-4 weeks you should be able to add more fish and scale back on the water changes to 1x a week. Also, you need to monitor your fish carefully and/or test the water. I did the 55 without a test kit (again not recommended), but you need to carefully watch your fish for any signs of distress and be prepared to change water immediately. In fishy cycling, I think the bigger the tank the better.

One last thing, if you can get your hands on a piece of filter from an established tank, well, that is like gold. Stick it behind your new filter and you will have instant cycling.

Good luck!

Jackie
 
thanks for the advice .. we may try to put some plants in there but we're probably not going to put any other types of fish in there .. all we really want to raise are the barbs .. after the cycling is done we wouldn't want to just flush the others thats not right

i think i may give the filter thing a try .. that was mentioned somewhere in something i read i think

if i do put the dirty filter in the new tank from the existing tank will that cause anymore fish to die or will that just help the process along?
 
If you already have a cycled 10 gallon and are wanting to move all the fish from it to the 20g, just move over the fish and filter to the 20g and you should be all set. It might take a few days for the bacteria to catch up to the few extra fish you have, but it will pretty much instantly cycle. If you are going to continue to cycle the tank with fish the way you are, you just need to do more frequent/larger water changes to keep the ammonia and nitrite as low as possible and keep the fish alive:)
 
see holly that's what i don't understand tho

the ammonia levels never peaked like they are supposed to and the nitrates and nitrites never left zero .. its like its not cycling at all yet the fish are dying .. i don't get it
 
Did you move a piece of the filter? If so, let us know if you continue to lose fish. Otherwise, I'm not sure what to tell you. If you are doing water changes and your ammonia is at a relatively low (under .25), then I am not sure. It could be as simple as sick fish from the store or something that has polluted your tap water (happened to me once, tap water got contaminated with perchlorate). I'd continue to do frequent water changes.

Jackie
 
i cut a piece of filter off and put it behind the filter in the new tank .. about 1/4 inch thick and 2.5 inches long .. also put in about 2 scoops of gravel from the existing tank .. i'll check the numbers this evening

the 4 fish i spoke about that i just put in are doing much much better than the original ones in the new tank .. actively playing and nipping at each other .. heck they even got the one that didn't move to play with them .. it dosen't mope around anymore :clap:

i haven't done a single water change yet .. i thought you weren't supposed to until the ammonia levels went up .. i really don't see the point if my numbers didn't move

also i'm not using tap water ... i'm buying water from a store in gallon jugs
 
tank3544 said:
i haven't done a single water change yet .. i thought you weren't supposed to until the ammonia levels went up .. i really don't see the point if my numbers didn't move

also i'm not using tap water ... i'm buying water from a store in gallon jugs
Click to expand...

Once the ammonia starts to go up you'll want to do water changes, as long as it is at 0, you can just keep testing.

what exactly is this water you are using from the store? That could be a problem. Some of that water is filtered to remove alot of chemicals/minerals, etc. that fish need.

As for the new tank, if you are moving over all the fish anyway, why don't you just do that now, along with the entire filter, not just a piece of the media?? If you don't plan to use the gravel from the old tank in the new tank you could still get a media bag from the LFS and hang all the old gravel in it in the new tank for a while to move over that much more bacteria. Or are you saying the 10g tank was never cycled (did you have 0 ammonia and nitrite and a nitrate reading in that tank?)
 
the 10 gallon tank isn't exactly in good shape .. frankly from the numbers i'm not sure how the fish are alive .. it was our first tank and we had zero idea what we were doing .. in fact nobody at the pet store told me i had to cycle the tank .. i only found out after researching what to do for a larger tank .. therefore it was never cycled and no matter what we do now we can't get the numbers down

we have a pleco that is constantly pooping and in a small 10 gallon tank i think he's most of the problem .. i try to clean it once a week with a gravel vac and the bottom is always just covered in his poop .. do you think he could have been the problem in the 10 gallon? if so he sure isn't moving to the new one .. we'll just get some cory cats instead if he's not needed

in the old 10 gallon tank these are the numbers
ammonia - can't read it but i think its around .5
nitrates - about 100
nitrites - about 5
total hardness - 120
total alkalinity - 80
PH - 6.8

in the new 20 gallon tank these are the numbers of of right now
ammonia - .25 - its been the same number for a week now .. the pet store said it was alarmingly high and i should do a water change .. i told her other than zero that was the lowest number on the chart and that she was crazy
nitrates - looks to be about zero .. if anything maybe slightly above zero .. nowhere near the color of the 20ppm
nitrites - again looks about zero .. if anything slightly above zero .. much closer to zero color than color for .5
total hardness - 0
total alkalinity - 0
ph - 6.4 - i'm just about to add some salt to bring that up a little
 
Since your 10g tank was not cycled to begin with, adding filter media from that to the 20g won't accomplish anything. The pleco is certainly a poop machine, is not needed for any tank unless the person really likes the fish and if it is a common pleco it will WAY outgrow either tank, they should not be kept in anything less than 75g, they can easily exceed 18 inches!!!

Basically, I would read the cycling info., then read it a few more times ;) !! It is alot to take in, and basically you are doing a fishy cycle in both tanks. Water changes are a must, you want to keep ammonia and nitrite at/very close to 0. You may be doing as much as (or even more) 50% a day. It is alot of work to do a fishy cycle and keep the fish alive at the same time!

I mentioned this in your other thread too, but don't bother with the salt. It is not needed in freshwater tanks, and I don't believe it has any effect on ph, do you remember where you might have heard that? It can help reduce the toxicity of nitrite though.

Until the tanks are cycled (consistently showing a 0 reading for ammonia and nitrite, and some readings for nitrate) don't get anymore fish. The best thing you could do right now is see if you can hunt down some biospira. It will cycle the tank in a few days as opposed to a few+ weeks. Any other product that claims to cycle the tank (like "cycle") doesn't, so don't waste your money!!
 
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