question

[dumbo]

You've probably heard about this many times but I do need some advice. I bought a ten gallon tank and five fish (2 platies, 2 blackskirt tetras, and 1 catfish cory) a week ago. I obviously didn't know anything about cycling a new tank. The water turned milky shortly after I dropped all the fish. I asked a friend and she said a new tank was like that and the water would shortly clear up. It did clear up yesterday so, happy and clueless that I was, I went to petco today and got more fish.. 5 small pristella tetras and 2 more platies. Now I got 12 fish in a ten gallon tank.

I came online to read about all the fish that I just bought and stumbled on "a nitrogen cycle" with 1 or 2 hardy fish and realized what I just did. Now I'm not sure what to do. My poor fish still seem healthy and lively and the water looks clear now. [This is Day 8] Should I..

1. Take out some fish? The problem is I don't have a place for them. I only have one tank, one air pump, and one heater. Would PetCo take them back? Which one should I take out? [1 catfish cory, 2 mickey mouse platies, 2 sunset platies, 2 blackskirt tetras, 5 small pristella tetras]

2. Leave it like this and see who will survive? That seems cruel. I hope I can do something about it!

3. Not feed them so much so they won't produce so much waste? Probably not a good idea any way

4. Keep putting in Amquel everyday or something to remove the ammonia?

5. Keep changing a small amount of water everyday or something? I did change about 10% of water today and hope I can prolong the fish lives while I go ask for help.

6. Any suggestion?

Thanks a lot in advance.

Dumbo

 

[PurpleSmurf]

Take back the cory. They're social fish and you're already over stocking the tank.

Get a test kit for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate at the least. If you detect any ammonia or nitrite do a 20%-50% water change. That or buy some Bio-spira and you'll cycle the tank almost instantly to within three days.

 

[Holly9937]

You could also take back the blackskirts, they would like to be in a bigger group as well. However, usually the big chain stores won't take back fish, give them a call. If not, try to find a small local place near you, they are more likely to take the fish. Until you get the test kits you should change at least 25% of the water every day. Its a small tank, so it should not be too much of a problem. Amonia and nitrite are toxic and can build up very quickly (literally, hours-overnight), especially in your situation ( a small, overstocked tank). Usually any store will test your water for free, but you'll want to be testing everyday to make sure you are keeping both low/zero and you probably don't want to spend that much time at the pet store. If any fish do happen to die on you, don't replace them, wait a few weeks until your tank has a chance to get cycled

 

[Arjuna]

I was wondering ... do fish stores (especially PETCO and PETSMART) even take back fish? Perhaps they would on some kind of a trade like ... return a $5 fish and receive a $5 purchase credit, but i dunno. If I were an LFS owner, I think I would think twice about buying or taking back any fish from customers - especially if the customer had them for awhile in some strange tank.

I think the best option is to keep your fish and set up a new tank. Sounds like a good humane excuse to spend some money without feeling guilty about it. Find the tank that is the right size for your fish and go out and buy it. With only a 5-gallon tank at this point, you don't have much invested yet (should be less than $50 bucks) and you can always use the 5-gallon as a secondary tank (hospital / quarantine tank).

So I would go out and buy a bigger tank (much larger in your case). Throw your fish and some Bio-Spira in it as PurpleSmurf says above (so you don't have to go through a fish cycling nightmare) - and you should be set.

In the mean time - you should do daily water changes in that 5 gallon. I have no clue about what stress levels your particular fish can stand - so I don't know how large a quantity of water they can tolerate at each daily swapout. I do all Goldfish (Ryukins). I can change 50-60% of my water daily (and have in the past for sometimes weeks) and the goldfish love it. They even play in the stream of water when I pour the buckets in. The more sloppy splashing I make, the more they seem to like it. So, in my experience, Goldfish at least like large water swapouts. The larger the water swapout - the more easily you can bring toxic ammonia and nitrite levels down. The solution to pollution is dilution. Just make sure your fish can handle whatever amount you swap out. Also take care to ensure the water you put back into the tank is treated to remove choramides and even ammonia - and is the right temp.

I'm cycling a tank right now but it's not overloaded (it is however - full loaded - and not with feeder fish either). I do 20% water changes each day. I'm still in the ammonia phase of the cycle - so right now after each daily water swapout - I also throw in a standard dose of Amquel. The 20% water change greatly reduces the amount of toxic ammonia in my tank. The standard dose of amquel brings my ammonia levels to ZERO. So every day after the water swapout - I have ZERO ammonia. I settled on this method after much trial and error - but using this method, my toxic ammonia never exceeds .5ppm because that's all my fish can generate in a single day - and that's only if they have a very "messy" day. This is a good thing for fish and has kept my little guys from dieing off while the tank is cycling. A standard dose of Amquel will bring down ammonia levels by 1.2ppm (advertised - YMMV). So if you have 1.0ppm of ammonia in the tank - the Amquel should bring your level down to ZERO. If however, you have 4ppm of ammonia - well then Amquel only theoretically gets you to 2.8 - which is still a long way from a safe level. So the water changes and the Amquel working in concert help keep things under control. That's my opinion - for what it's worth.

Buy a GOOD water test kit. One that does PH, Ammonia, Nitrites, and Nitrates (at least). A pretty good one is the Master Test Kit from Aquarium Pharmaceuticals - and the Ammonia test solutions in that kit WILL measure Toxic ammonia only - even if using Amquel. Test your water daily - I do it once in the morning and once in the evening. If I suspect something might be up with the tank - I'll do it more than that even. Once you have a stable cycled tank you can prolly back off the testing a bit. Or not - your choice.

Take Care,
Arjuna

 

[dumbo]

Thanks a lot for your advice.. I'm going back to the petstore to buy the test kits and bio-spira. They won't take the fish back.. so the cory and blackskirt tetras will have to stay inside before I can find them a new home. I hope they won't die before then.

I've just changed 1/5 of the water. If I do this everyday, am I still cycling the tank?

I can't buy a new tank right now.. because then I'll need to buy all that come with it. Maybe next month or something. Another question though, is it possible to have a bare tank for a while with maybe a cheap air pump with no filter or heater. That might be doable.

Thanks a lot.

Dumbo

 

[sky.eyes.woman]

I was wondering ... do fish stores (especially PETCO and PETSMART) even take back fish?

I can't speak for Petco, but PETsMART is like this:
All our fish (except feeders) have a 14 day guarantee on them. If you bring back a fish within that time frame for ANY reason we will take it back. Most of the time a receipt is required but if I remember selling the fish to you I will not worry about the receipt. All live fish returned to the store go into the hospital tank for at least 3 days, but usually stay in there for over a week or more if they look sick at all when they come back. Fish (and other animals too, I got my parakeet free after he got beat up by the other birds) returned alive with permanent disfigurement are adopted by employees. Sometimes when fish are just brought in and 'dumped' by people we will find them a home, even if we have to take it home ourselves.

PS- Now that I've seen your post, dumbo, I'm wondering why the store employee didn't ask you about your tank size and how long it was set up, etc.
When I ask people this stuff at work they sometimes look at me like, 'Why are you grilling me?' but I think if whoever waited on you in the store had done their job properly they wouldn't have let you get those fish to begin with. It is not all your fault, and I'm glad you are concerned enough to try and do damage control...good luck.

 

[firefly]

PS- Now that I've seen your post, dumbo, I'm wondering why the store employee didn't ask you about your tank size and how long it was set up, etc.
When I ask people this stuff at work they sometimes look at me like, 'Why are you grilling me?' but I think if whoever waited on you in the store had done their job properly they wouldn't have let you get those fish to begin with. It is not all your fault, and I'm glad you are concerned enough to try and do damage control...good luck.

Ah, but see he went to Petco, not petsmart. In my area, the petcos really don't know much about their animals,and don't ask lots of questions of customers etc. We get many people who continually shop our store (I work at Petsmart) because we ask the right questions and help their fish live. THey have gotten some pretty bad advice from the local petcos. Now, we also get some people who mutter under their breaths that perhaps they should just buy their fish elsewhere when I tell them that the three bala sharks they want will quickly outgrow their 29g tank....

I also get lots of people who are truly surprised and dissapointed that they can't add all the fish at once to their tank, but they follow my advice and are glad that their fish are happier and healthier because of it.

Emily

 

[Holly9937]

hmmm I don't want to return any, but the petsmart I just went to said they DO NOT take fish back... oh well

 

[firefly]

hmmm I don't want to return any, but the petsmart I just went to said they DO NOT take fish back... oh well

we don't if its after 14 days, but we are supposed to during the 14day period. Sometimes though new employees get really confused about when to take things back or not... ANd, we also get people who come in trying to give us baby fish (usually mollies, or platys) and we never take those... Of course they insist we've taken their fish for years, and don't understand why we won't now. WE've only been here about 2yrs, and we've never taken fish... Petco in our area does take fish, go figure...

Emily

 

[Raskolnikov]

The Petco near me will take back any fish and put it up for adoption, but you get no credit in on the trade. It's a nice service, really. They basically house "rejected" fish until another person comes along who wants them.
The Petsmart closest to me refuses to accept any fish for any reason unless it's a fish purchased there w/in the 14 day grace period.

Neither of them tend to know a fish from a hole in the ground.