I currently have a 55gal tank housing 2 Plecos, 1 Hillstream Loach, 3 Platys, 3 Swordtails and 2 Rainbow Cichlids. I got the Rainbows about 2 weeks ago from my LFS and they have been happy in the tank ever since. My question is how can you definitavely tell a male from a female? Both of them are roughly the same size with matching color patterns. Anal and Dorsal fins seem to be a match as well. Basically, all the usual ways of telling the difference are non existant. They both get along fairly well, usually staying in separate caves. I understand Rainbows have a tendency of changing colors fairly rapidly. Several times I have observed the 'dominant' Rainbow swimming into the others cave (flowerpot) and gently nudging the other. Some strange behavior takes place when this happens. The 'submissive' seems to stiffen its body and shake somewhat. They do not fight or chase each other around the tank and this 'shaking' and nudging almost seems like a cichlid mating tactic. I'm trying to find out whether or not I have two males or a mating pair. All the techniques I've found stating how to tell Rainbows specifically apart have proven useless! Any takers?
Rainbow Cichlids -Herotilapia multispinosa. Help!
- Thread starter thrill6699
- Start date
this is one of those species which are not sexually dimorphic. in other words, it's practically impossible to discern sexual differences until/if they spawn. some will tell you that males have longer dorsal fin rays but i'm keeping two groups of 5 H. multispinosum right now and cannot tell the difference at 2 inches unless i vent them.
'shaking' is not a definitive sexual process. two males might 'shake' as a dominance behaviour. a male and a female might shake as a spawning behaviour, two females might shake as an aggression behaviour .... so you see, it's just not a means to tell male from female.
Shaking! - Twitching! - Seizures!
The reason I used that title is because it seemed hard for me to find anything related and as I search other forums including this one, those words were commonly used by those trying to explain the problem. I knew this shaking or seizure like behavior was not normal. Last night, I found my problem. AMMONIA (8ppm) was my issue. My fish were struggling to survive and subjected to serious poisoning from ammonia. CAUTION: test strips were reading much different than my new $50 test kit.
Make sure you do an ammonia test. The root of the problem was me, I'm new to this, and realized I've been feeding waaaaay to much food. The food appeared to have been eaten and the fish still seemed hungry. To my astonisment last night during a hefty water change, I cleaned up the rocks and realized most of the food I thought was being eaten was in fact in the rocks! Bad bad bad.
I did a 50% water change and this took the ammonia down to 2ppm but still way too high for fish liking. I used some ammonia detox and will wait a couple three days before another water change. I changed my filter cartridges (they were very dirty at day 31) and my feeding will slow to a pace of 1 time per day until I see a leveling off. My research shows it is better to feed less than to feed the problem. Livestock hunger is by far better than death IMO. Makes sense.
Check your ammonia levels and if you have a spike, read this: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwestcycling.htm
This article was very very informative in my emergency. My fish were twitching, swimming sideways like only at short intervals and seemed over agressive. IMO I think they were stressed due to the ammonia spiking.
Hope you find this post helpful. Email me if you have additional questions, I was really worried but even in the short timeframe, (overnight) from the things I did, I see livestock improvement.
thrill6699 said:
The reason I used that title is because it seemed hard for me to find anything related and as I search other forums including this one, those words were commonly used by those trying to explain the problem. I knew this shaking or seizure like behavior was not normal. Last night, I found my problem. AMMONIA (8ppm) was my issue. My fish were struggling to survive and subjected to serious poisoning from ammonia. CAUTION: test strips were reading much different than my new $50 test kit.
Make sure you do an ammonia test. The root of the problem was me, I'm new to this, and realized I've been feeding waaaaay to much food. The food appeared to have been eaten and the fish still seemed hungry. To my astonisment last night during a hefty water change, I cleaned up the rocks and realized most of the food I thought was being eaten was in fact in the rocks! Bad bad bad.
I did a 50% water change and this took the ammonia down to 2ppm but still way too high for fish liking. I used some ammonia detox and will wait a couple three days before another water change. I changed my filter cartridges (they were very dirty at day 31) and my feeding will slow to a pace of 1 time per day until I see a leveling off. My research shows it is better to feed less than to feed the problem. Livestock hunger is by far better than death IMO. Makes sense.
Check your ammonia levels and if you have a spike, read this: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwestcycling.htm
This article was very very informative in my emergency. My fish were twitching, swimming sideways like only at short intervals and seemed over agressive. IMO I think they were stressed due to the ammonia spiking.
Hope you find this post helpful. Email me if you have additional questions, I was really worried but even in the short timeframe, (overnight) from the things I did, I see livestock improvement.
Last edited:
If your ammonia is that high(2ppm) then you should do another water change sooner than 3 days, like today.
You are right...
You are right on the money, I 'sensed' the same through more reading. I've been doing 25% water changes every day and the fish seem healthy....but the ammonia still hasn't dissipated. I still sit (2dys later) at 2ppm. The cichlid livestock seem ok, meaning they are not overly agressive or twitching as they did before, however 2ppm is still way to high for my or their liking and I know this. I have noticed that some of the livestock have burned gills and I'm sorry to them for this, but I'm new and we'll have to grow together. I can't take total blame, the fish store said this said that...I didn't know and I belive my tank got overpopulated too fast even tho it had "cycled"
Q: When I do these daily water changes, should i also be cleaning the rocks? Sucking up the waste, etc?
I've backed down to 1 time/day feedings to try to help, I've moved the 8 community fish (danios and mollies) out of the tank so only the 10 cichlids are in there (75G) with two Emperor 400's.
If u have time to answer, thanks, I appreciate your (or anyone's) time to respond.
Reed
You are right on the money, I 'sensed' the same through more reading. I've been doing 25% water changes every day and the fish seem healthy....but the ammonia still hasn't dissipated. I still sit (2dys later) at 2ppm. The cichlid livestock seem ok, meaning they are not overly agressive or twitching as they did before, however 2ppm is still way to high for my or their liking and I know this. I have noticed that some of the livestock have burned gills and I'm sorry to them for this, but I'm new and we'll have to grow together. I can't take total blame, the fish store said this said that...I didn't know and I belive my tank got overpopulated too fast even tho it had "cycled"
Q: When I do these daily water changes, should i also be cleaning the rocks? Sucking up the waste, etc?
I've backed down to 1 time/day feedings to try to help, I've moved the 8 community fish (danios and mollies) out of the tank so only the 10 cichlids are in there (75G) with two Emperor 400's.
If u have time to answer, thanks, I appreciate your (or anyone's) time to respond.
Reed
You dont really have to clean the gravel every time you do a water change, I would just clean the rocks once a week. Just change the water to dilute the ammonia. Are you adding any decholrinator when you are adding new water? I dont to it every time but its a good thing to do. You just have to be patient and wait for your bacteria colony to grow.
ok here's my 2 cents:
first, to control the ammo problem - find biospira - I normally don't condone chemicals, but this stuff is like liquid magic as long as it has stayed refrigrated from packaging to your tank. second, in the future, especially if you still have an ammo problem, don't change out your filters. Instead pull them out, and rinse them thoroughly in tank water, or at least dechlorinated water - the filter media is a major source of cycling bacteria.
now, on to the herotilapia multispinosa.
there are 2 color forms that I have seen - the common yellowish with black, and the far more uncommon red form.
Sexing: until they are mature, it can be hard to sex, but the male WILL have slightly longer dorsal and anal fins - but only barely. also, he will be a little bit larger. the females ovipositor will also become visible when she is close to breeding. it will be more full and rounded and longer than the the males organs - which may also protrude close to breeding.
Breeding:
first sign - color change to a great deal of dark/black with less of the yellow showing - the yellow will also become very yellow - these guys will look like bumble bees when its time.
2nd sign - they will clean off a vertical piece of slate or rock to lay the eggs on - both will do this. ***Note: as yours already seem to like caves, they may well breed in the caves - I have a pair that started off with slate, and now will only breed in the coconut cave I made for them.
3rd sign - that shaking and wiggling dance you saw - the female will do this towards the male to get him to back off if she isnt ready yet. the male will sometimes shimmy, as if to beg her to get on with it.
lastly - there will be eggs, and a whole heck of a lot of them - upwards of 300 at times. once you get your water conditions down, and they are comfortable, you can expect some large broods if you do happen to have a pair
first, to control the ammo problem - find biospira - I normally don't condone chemicals, but this stuff is like liquid magic as long as it has stayed refrigrated from packaging to your tank. second, in the future, especially if you still have an ammo problem, don't change out your filters. Instead pull them out, and rinse them thoroughly in tank water, or at least dechlorinated water - the filter media is a major source of cycling bacteria.
now, on to the herotilapia multispinosa.
there are 2 color forms that I have seen - the common yellowish with black, and the far more uncommon red form.
Sexing: until they are mature, it can be hard to sex, but the male WILL have slightly longer dorsal and anal fins - but only barely. also, he will be a little bit larger. the females ovipositor will also become visible when she is close to breeding. it will be more full and rounded and longer than the the males organs - which may also protrude close to breeding.
Breeding:
first sign - color change to a great deal of dark/black with less of the yellow showing - the yellow will also become very yellow - these guys will look like bumble bees when its time.
2nd sign - they will clean off a vertical piece of slate or rock to lay the eggs on - both will do this. ***Note: as yours already seem to like caves, they may well breed in the caves - I have a pair that started off with slate, and now will only breed in the coconut cave I made for them.
3rd sign - that shaking and wiggling dance you saw - the female will do this towards the male to get him to back off if she isnt ready yet. the male will sometimes shimmy, as if to beg her to get on with it.
lastly - there will be eggs, and a whole heck of a lot of them - upwards of 300 at times. once you get your water conditions down, and they are comfortable, you can expect some large broods if you do happen to have a pair
and before I get flamed for the not changing the filter media comment:
yes it does need to be replaced from time to time, but when you do, only change 1/2 of it at a time, so that you keep a healthy bacteria colony to process the fish waste.
oh, and enjoy your rainbows - they are personally one of my favorite cichlids
yes it does need to be replaced from time to time, but when you do, only change 1/2 of it at a time, so that you keep a healthy bacteria colony to process the fish waste.
oh, and enjoy your rainbows - they are personally one of my favorite cichlids