Raising pH with Coral or baking soda - I need some help

[LMOUTHBASS]

Thanks again everyone - a special thank you to Byron Amazonas. I really appreciate you taking the time to share all of that, you have a wealth of knowledge and I'm thankful you are taking the time to share it with me. Thanks again. Out of curiosity, are you a Chemist or just a very experienced Aquarist? You have such a good understanding of the scientific side of the hobby!

That being said, its knowledge sharing like this that helps advance the hobby, and I'm always eager to learn more to become a better Aquarist. This is so incredibly helpful that I'm going to print up that post as a reference guide. I'm looking forward to continuing to learn about the water chemistry aspects of the hobby and having a better understanding of it going forward, thank you again!

Ok - so here's where I'm at with things as of this morning...

Last night I did my water changes, and noticed my fish with the cloudy eye now had a beat up, tattered looking, slightly fungus engulfed side, along his lateral line. I'm almost certain it is a bacterial infection at this point. Oddly, it is only the right side of his body that is affected. It's like looking at Two-Face from Batman. You see his left side and he looks fine. I also noticed before bed time that he was starting to lose his equilibrium a little bit. This morning he was still alive, and scooted under a log, I assume for comfort. I don't anticipate that he'll last the day... I switched from using a powdered form of Furizol to Jungle Fungus Clear as it seems to have very strong reviews (I know that it essentially contains the same ingredients but I figured I'd give it a go) I also added Pimafix hoping for a synergistic blend. I'll have to see what happens when I get home.

As for the water chemistry of my tap water - I filled a bucket with some tap water last night, to let it gas off for 24 hours (no air stone) and will check the ph, kh and gh this evening. Also might try shaking a bottle of water as Byron mentioned to try that as well. I'm kind of excited to check it out, this way I can share it with you and get more detailed, specifics about my source of water.

Will post that as soon as I have the results!

 

[Byron Amazonas]

Thanks again everyone - a special thank you to Byron Amazonas. I really appreciate you taking the time to share all of that, you have a wealth of knowledge and I'm thankful you are taking the time to share it with me. Thanks again. Out of curiosity, are you a Chemist or just a very experienced Aquarist? You have such a good understanding of the scientific side of the hobby!

That being said, its knowledge sharing like this that helps advance the hobby, and I'm always eager to learn more to become a better Aquarist. This is so incredibly helpful that I'm going to print up that post as a reference guide. I'm looking forward to continuing to learn about the water chemistry aspects of the hobby and having a better understanding of it going forward, thank you again!

Ok - so here's where I'm at with things as of this morning...

Last night I did my water changes, and noticed my fish with the cloudy eye now had a beat up, tattered looking, slightly fungus engulfed side, along his lateral line. I'm almost certain it is a bacterial infection at this point. Oddly, it is only the right side of his body that is affected. It's like looking at Two-Face from Batman. You see his left side and he looks fine. I also noticed before bed time that he was starting to lose his equilibrium a little bit. This morning he was still alive, and scooted under a log, I assume for comfort. I don't anticipate that he'll last the day... I switched from using a powdered form of Furizol to Jungle Fungus Clear as it seems to have very strong reviews (I know that it essentially contains the same ingredients but I figured I'd give it a go) I also added Pimafix hoping for a synergistic blend. I'll have to see what happens when I get home.

As for the water chemistry of my tap water - I filled a bucket with some tap water last night, to let it gas off for 24 hours (no air stone) and will check the ph, kh and gh this evening. Also might try shaking a bottle of water as Byron mentioned to try that as well. I'm kind of excited to check it out, this way I can share it with you and get more detailed, specifics about my source of water.

Will post that as soon as I have the results!

You're very welcome, and thank you for the kind words. I almost went into biology, but chose a different path in university. But I love research, so now that I have the time (retired early) I have been able to spend hours researching various aspects of the hobby. That article is one of several I did for another forum.

I will leave it to those more expert in disease to comment on the issues with the fish. This is a very complicated aspect of the hobby and one I know next to nothing about. I have a microbiologist friend I turn to whenever I get stumped with dying fish. Good luck on that. You might want to post a new thread in the disease section here, so others will be able to assist you.

When I see your numbers I will continue on the pH question.

Byron.

 

[LMOUTHBASS]

Ok so I have tested my tap water now after letting it sit in a bucket for roughly 24 hours.

I first tried using the API liquid test for ph, kh, and gh.

I got a ph reading between 6.6-6.8

The kh and gh testing does not seem to work. Instructions say to add 1 drop at a time, capping it and inverting each time. Do this until water turns from blue to yellow after being shaken after each drop for kh and the same instructions for gh except until the water turns from orange to green... I remember not being able to get this to work properly a few years ago as well, so I must be doing something wrong?

Here's the problem... for the kh the liquid is orange... they say its supposed to go from blue to yellow, the problem is the liquid never turns the water blue to begin with, it just makes it orange, the same color as the liquid. I believe the orange liquid is supposed to turn blue when it initially interacts with my water... but it never does. So all I get is an orange test tube... I did this for 21 drops before stopping because additional drops are just off the chart and not part of the possible readings, so I know something is not right.

Same deal for the GH the water never starts off orange when I pour the liquid in and the best I can get it to turn is a pale yellow/green color...

What am I doing wrong?

Luckily, I have some test strips... I know these aren't the best option, but it will have to suffice for now until I figure out this liquid test kit. Also, the strips accurately read my ph as it matched what I got using the liquid test for ph.

Based on the strips, I have a kh of 40 ppm and a GH of 30 ppm with a ph of 6.6-6.8 depending how you interpret the color. So for now those are the results I have in. Looking forward to your feedback!

Thanks!

 

[Byron Amazonas]

Ok so I have tested my tap water now after letting it sit in a bucket for roughly 24 hours.

I first tried using the API liquid test for ph, kh, and gh.

I got a ph reading between 6.6-6.8

The kh and gh testing does not seem to work. Instructions say to add 1 drop at a time, capping it and inverting each time. Do this until water turns from blue to yellow after being shaken after each drop for kh and the same instructions for gh except until the water turns from orange to green... I remember not being able to get this to work properly a few years ago as well, so I must be doing something wrong?

Here's the problem... for the kh the liquid is orange... they say its supposed to go from blue to yellow, the problem is the liquid never turns the water blue to begin with, it just makes it orange, the same color as the liquid. I believe the orange liquid is supposed to turn blue when it initially interacts with my water... but it never does. So all I get is an orange test tube... I did this for 21 drops before stopping because additional drops are just off the chart and not part of the possible readings, so I know something is not right.

Same deal for the GH the water never starts off orange when I pour the liquid in and the best I can get it to turn is a pale yellow/green color...

What am I doing wrong?

Luckily, I have some test strips... I know these aren't the best option, but it will have to suffice for now until I figure out this liquid test kit. Also, the strips accurately read my ph as it matched what I got using the liquid test for ph.

Based on the strips, I have a kh of 40 ppm and a GH of 30 ppm with a ph of 6.6-6.8 depending how you interpret the color. So for now those are the results I have in. Looking forward to your feedback!

Thanks!

First on the test kit issue. I use the API kits myself, and I was having incredible difficulty with the GH/KH tests until I got a new test kit. I suppose the older one might have been too old; the regents of test kits do have a shelf life according to the manufacturer. If you buy a new liquid kit, check the dates on the box to make sure it is more recent. But you may not need one, as I will explain.

Test strips are said to be less reliable, but there is still the option of checking GH and KH with the municipal water people who supply your water; they probably have a website. If you find it and can't decipher the data, post the link and I can take a look. GH/KH can sometimes be ascertainable even though not directly stated like this. These numbers will confirm your test strip results, which is worth doing just so you know for certain.

Now, to the numbers. Assuming they are reasonably accurate, you have very soft water GH of 40 ppm which equates to 2 dGH with a low (almost nil) "Buffering" capability from the KH of 30 ppm (1.6 dKH). Much the same as mine in fact, though mine is even lower at near-zero for GH and KH. The pH is slightly acidic. All this is good news for the fish mentioned previously, and the plants too. Unless you go down the road of raising the GH for some reason, you won't need to test for it in future, so some money saved.

So, what is occurring here is the natural acidification of the water due to the breakdown of organics by bacteria. Be regular in water changes of half the tank volume (no less) every week. Maintain moderate stocking levels of fish, i.e., do not overstock. Do not overfeed; once a day, missing a day or two each week (like water change day) is sufficient, and not overfeeding at each time.


The GH should remain much the same in the tank as in the source water. I have not found even with my more heavily planted tanks that it goes down much. The hard minerals (calcium, magnesium, potassium, manganese) are low, but depending upon the plant species this should not be problematic if you use a comprehensive liquid plant fertilizer once a week after the water change. If issues do arise like with larger swords, we can discuss how to solve this; I have this issue in two tanks.

Wood and dried leaves will contribute to the lowering of the GH and pH obviously. But this is not a problem with the fish mentioned.

I am still of the view that the pH had nothing to do with the disease issues described. As I think I said in one of my posts, I have this situation and have for 20+ years and have never seen any fish problems due to the low pH or GH.

Byron.

 

[LMOUTHBASS]

Thanks again Byron. Very helpful explanation and I feel I have a much better understanding of the water chemistry components now. It is something I have been meaning to better educate myself on for quite some time, but reading scientific articles can be kind of tedious. Seeing it in layman's terms was fantastic.

I'm glad to hear that based on the results I did get, that my water is actually very good for the SA Cichlids I generally keep. I wanted to rule out a water parameter issue as I know imperfect water conditions can stress some fish out, weaken their immune system and allow bacteria the fish can normally shake off, to affect the fish in the form of illness.

Ruling that out now, allows me to focus on other factors. Unfortunately at the moment, I don't have the room for a quarantine tank, so I have to trust my LFS (which I generally have always gotten good fish from) and do my best visually inspecting my fish before purchase. I know that this is not ideal, as I can't see microbes etc, but its the best I can do for now. When I move soon, I will be able to set up a Q tank which I will use.

Anyhow, I believe stress probably played a roll in some of the fish loss, and perhaps they were carrying something that was opportunistic once the fish was weakened. I won't know for sure though. I lost another Cory this morning. All of them have looked very healthy before death, and after they've passed, they don't show any signs of disease such as red streaks, fungus (the corys never got fungus), sunken stomachs or anything else... so that is one reason I wanted to look at water conditions.

I'm a little stumped on that one because I've also been doing several water changes. I also did lose the fish with the cloudy eye last night which was a bummer. The eye cloud progressed more to a film on the eye and then a beat up patch on his right side.

perhaps the Corys however are sensitive to the Jungle Tank Buddies Fungus meds... I don't know though.

Hopefully my tank is back on track, everyone else is healthy, looks great and eating fine, so I will continue with regular water changes.

Thanks again Byron for all of the valuable info. I will follow that water change routine you suggested as well as check my municipality's website to see if I can gather any other water information there. If I discover anything new I'll post back here.

Thanks again, I truly appreciate your time!

Mark