Rams: Belgian vs German, etc

Hey, well done and you did a good job choosing those Bolivians - no deformities, not massively underfed, a decent size and good colours already.

I can't really see from those pics (too small) to determine sex but on a glimpse I'd say you did well sexing them too. The first fish does look to have a swollen ovipositor, if you could get me larger and closer pics of the two fish (just aim for the vent, don't worry about the head/tail etc, all I need to see is that midsection) then I could tell you for certain. With a good diet and appropriate aquascape these fish will be ready to mate and popping with colour in the not too distant future.

Just throwing it out there - would you consider switching to sand, it's a lot easier to do than you'd think and it's much less work once it's done too - I can give you my step by step method if it'd help.

Also if I could see a full tank shot so that I can advise you as to whether you need more cover/broken lines of sight for the fish.

Finally, what will you be feeding them?

If we get these few things sorted I think you'd be amazed at the increase in their colour and activity (especially over sand). The name Mikro-geo-phagus translates roughly to Small, Earth, Eater - they sift sand just like Geophagus. When spawning they also dig pits in the sand to act as fry nurseries etc so you do really see much more natural behaviour over sand.

But yeah, congrats, you did really well and I'd say come join us at the Bolivian Rams club on the Cichlid Forum, we're always after new members to share and discuss findings, problems, information and pictures with one another.

star_rider - from CF? Glad I could help!

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Blairo, I can't tell you how good it makes me feel, as a newbie Ram-friend, to hear that I have done all right. I felt like everything was ok, but it's good to hear it from someone who knows. I'll send better vent pictures. I felt pretty confident that the male really was a male, but my main concern is whether my female was really female. Looked like she was the only one in the tank. I had read on the other forum where you post about some Rams with deformities, so I was on the lookout for anything that looked odd, although I'm not yet that familiar with 'normal' in Rams, either...

My mate had a theory that the Rams thought the lens of the silver camera was the eye of a giant predator and that's why they were so nervous about it. I thought that was an interesting theory...

The aquarium decor is due for a complete overhaul. I've been looking at pics of tanks with sand and I was thinking I'd change over -- but the mechanics of doing that require thought -- so I've been thinking! I'd be VERY interested in looking at your method of changing over.

I'll send you a shot of the tank -- the plants and rocks are all plastic but I've tried to position them in such a way that the 'kids' who live in there will find it comfy. Let me know what you think. I'm totally open to suggestions. On the left of the picture you see a coffee mug -- that's a house for corys -- and a fairly thick stand of plants. Everybody seems to like that corner. In the middle are two rocks with a lot of holes to swim through (which they do) and they pretty much break the space in two. On the right is more open space, only one plant. I was worried that there might not be enough open space. Then I was worried there might not be enough 'closed' space. I can see that a huge tank is in my future...

So far, as far as food goes, I've been feeding them tropical flakes once a day and shrimp pellets, also once a day. They are not much interested in the floating flakes but they like the shrimp pellets a lot. They also liked the few molly fry that were in there -- exactly what I was hoping for! (the mollys and platys are going to a new home today -- yay. not my favorite fish, it turns out) The lfs said "oh, they'll eat anything."

The other residents of the tank are julii cories - 3 for now, but 3 more coming. They would appreciate the sand as well.

The tank has room for more folks. After the mollys and platys leave there will be only bottom dwellers. Not very artistic. Now that I've discovered the captivating Rams I know who/what the centerpiece of the tank is. I'll be thinking about tank mates that wil compliment them.

Your input is greatly appreciated. :tropicalfish:

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Hi Blairo... I see you are working on creating another ridiculously long thread in another forum. :raspberry:

My grandpa male has become one of those hyper territorial males you mentioned. I recently had to rescue his mate about 2-3 weeks after their last spawn. Then when he went after every other fish in the tank even though the kiddies were big enough to swim on their own two fins. I ended up pulling him and putting him with a ton of juvenile blue rams where he can't possible do anything about the crowd!

They are still my favorite fish though...
Cathy
PS You knew me as Katie Rose in a past life.
 
Hey FishBliss, I'm always happy to help, especially when it comes to Bolivians.

I'll have to have a dig through my old posts to find the changing to sand one but when I do I'll post it up here for you.

Just quickly wanted to say HI! to Cathy.
Glad to hear things are still, interesting, in your tanks at home ;). Good ol' Bolivians never fail to entertain (baffle and bemuse at times too). I had seen a couple of your posts, plus your picture and I did suspect it may have been you. The "Bolivians Rock" quote gave you away though, lol. Hows the business going!? Still breeding those Blues too. So how come we never see your wisdom on the CF boards any more, Ruurd was asking how you were recently, poor guy is going through some rough times at home but you know Ruurd, always on the up. You should drop by and give us an update, I know some of the new BRC members could do with meeting the Grandma of Bolivians (I learnt a lot from you and Ruurd.)

FishBliss, sorry for the hijack, I'll get that stuff together for you, first, LUNCHTIME!! mmm.

Blair.
 
Blair, thought you'd be interested to know that I found your post on cichlid-forum.com dated April 3. You described to CiChLiD LoVeR128 how you changed from gravel to sand. (see? I'm doing my homework...) I'll let it be your choice whether you post that info here for other folks. In the meantime, I'm going to go to Home Depot and look at sand.

I also saw pics of your oak leaf tank. my goodness! I'm nearly speechless. That is simply stunning. Absolutely gorgeous. You have a real artist's eye. I'm so impressed and I wish you'd mind-meld some of that talent to me.
 
I tried to get better vent pics. I don't think I succeeded, really, but I like looking at the fish so I'll post them anyway. The darker fish is very camera shy.

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looks like the paler of the two is the famale though I cannot say for sure that the one with the more pronounce spotting is entirely male.

The one in post #20 though, I'b be willing to bet is one of those Czech Rams :D
 
Actually, I think the formal name is Caticus Ram Terribilus, from the CatRam family. Characterized by sharp barbs on each of the 4 fins and sharp teeth. They also jump.
 
Cool stuff, glad you found the post I made on switching to sand, I thought it might be in there somewhere! lol.

Thanks for your compliments too!

As for the Bolivians, the first one (paler) is the female. The one showing stress markings I am 99% is a male, but I cannot vent him at this point in time.

The elongated spines of the dorsal fin scream male, the fin extensions on the tail and his pelvic fin shape all look like classic male characteristics. He's a good one and will be a looker once he's been fed up a bit and grown accustomed to his new environment. I'd bet money on it being a male, just from the behaviour you described in the shop.

Switching to sand is always a good start, I recommend a substrate that isn't too light - white sand will cause them to appear "washed out" quite a lot and the darker sand hides them, I go for a nice natural colour. Driftwood is another recommendation - it's a great and easy way to break up the lines of sight, provide them with spawning sites, provide them with plenty of cover and also provide shelter from overhead lighting in times where they feel stressed, or are trying to raise fry. Bolivians don't like overly bright lighting and will again appear washed out unless they have plenty of areas of shade/cover etc. It can also cause problems with their egg development and later on their fry development, hence why I recommend driftwood for easy shade etc.

They really enjoy a planted environment, if that's a route you wanted to go down, the plants themselves provide adequate cover and territory dividers in a well planted tank. They also grab bits of plant matter to use as cover for their fry when they're wigglers in the "nursery" pits they dig.

If you need help just ask, I'll do my best!

Oh and nice cat! Very cute.

Blair.
 
Sand it will be -- in the next week or so. I have to study up on making the switch to live plants. I have a green thumb with house plants but have no experience with aquatic plants -- and the fact that they influence the environment for my fish puts a lot of pressure on that green thumb not to turn black!

I'm increasingly concerned about the male fish -- the one with stress markings. He is acting ok, swimming with the female, eating, etc. He only hides if he sees the giant silver one-eyed predator (camera). But shouldn't he have toned down the stress marks by now? The female is clear and fine, after having spots the first day she came home, but his seem to remain the same every day -- even though there are no other outward signs of unhappiness it still concerns me....
 
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