Refugium Question

S

stourm

Registered Member
Jan 28, 2005
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Alright guys, I am new to this site and this is my first post so if I ask some stupid questions, I apologize beforehand. I have a 29 gallon glass saltwater aquarium. One 175W Metal Halide and two flourescent strip lights. I use two filters, a penguin biowheel and one of the Millenium filters. I have a protein skimmer but I had to remove it because the pump has some serious clog issues. Here are my questions. Are these two filters pretty good? Any of you know of any adverse effects using these might cause?

I would like to take a 10 gallon acrylisc tank and sit it right beside the 29 gallon and use it as a refugium. I do not have a sump tank, nor do I really have a good place for one except beside. I figured the refugium could sort of act like a sump tank so I guess what I want is a sump/refugium where I can grow some macroalgae and coepods, etc. I do not really want to use it for fish or live rock. I am thoroughly confused by all the information I have found concerning how to set up a tank such as this. The only thing I have really found for certain is that for this type of setup, I need to have a power head or water pump to push the return water from the refugium into the main tank. Do I need to use some kind of overflow and pump water from the overflow into the main tank or do I do it directly? Do I have to use an overflow to go from the main tank into the refugium or can I just use siphon? The two tanks are pretty close to the same height and if possible, the water level can be made to be the same with some sort of riser under the 10 gal. If I use a siphon I do not think it would overflow either tank since the water levels are the same, however, would the return pump push faster than the siphon and overflow the main tank? Any help on this refugium setup would be greatly appreciated! I have been looking for two days on the various DIY sites and forums and haven't really found a good idea of what I need to do here. Also, can I stick one of my filters and my protein skimmer in the sump/refugium? Thanks guys.

Alan
 
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Welcome.
Your refugium/sump needs to be fed from a hang on auto overflow box, commonly used for prefilters on trickle filter set ups. You can purchase one at most LFS's or online. Do not use a simple siphon for this; if your return pump fails you will have a disaster. For this reason you cannot have the two tanks at equal height unless they are close enough to incorporate some type of waterfall overflow which is possible with a custom acrylic buildout (actually one divided tank) but not really applicable for two standard glass tanks. The refugium needs to be lower than the display; on the side is fine, but it must be lower; the system is gravity driven. Yes, if big enough the equipment could go in there but research correct placement of your skimmer; pre/post raw water feed, etc. for best results. Plenty of info here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/refugium.htm
 
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Hi!!! Welcome to Aquaria Central...
Okay lets see here.........your filters seem great....it looks like you are doing a reef with that lighting, so I would fix the protien skimmer 'cause you are going to get mad algea with those lights, and get about 75-90 of live rock (for the best awesome water quality) and get rid of the biowheel...just pull the wheel out, not the whole thing. If you leave it and don't get rock(which you are-for reef right?) your nitrates are going to climb.
Okay now for your refugium...........you need to have it lower than your tank, cause you will need to syphon...I guess there is a new pump you can use, but I am unfamiliar. These are scary but you can hook a power head to it in case of power outage and keep the levels of the tubes right and you shouldn't have a problem. As long as the return tube is only in your show tank a half inch you might syphon a few gallons back into your refugium but it shouldn't be a disaster. You need an overflow for safty with a j pipe....your LFS will know all about them, ask. They can be spendy but it is needed...your LFS isn't trying to just make a buck. They have been working fine for me and I always go cheaper and the syphon is WAY cheaper than the pumps.
"what I want is a sump/refugium where I can grow some macroalgae and coepods , etc. I do not really want to use it for fish or live rock."
How are you going to do this without live rock?? copapods and macroagae need live rock and plants to thrive so you may need to reconsider.
" however, would the return pump push faster than the siphon and overflow the main tank? "
I think even and inch or two is good enough to use a syphon, if you have a 29gal for your main tank and are going to use a 10gal, the water table should be a few inches below.......hmmm do you have a 29 tall?? Even if the tanks are almost the same like you said I am pretty sure even an inch is perfect.
"Also, can I stick one of my filters and my protein skimmer in the sump/refugium?"
You can do all your filtering here, but it will filter your copapods too. So I have a protien skimmer in my sump, but my filter up on my tank.
Feel free to e-mail me.....I help people set them up all the time.:)
 
The refugium needs to be lower than the display; on the side is fine, but it must be lower; the system is gravity driven.
Click to expand...
Actually, there are many examples of fuges placed higher than the main tank. You pump water up with a powerhead in the main tank, and either drill an overflow or use an external overflow back to the display. Some say this is better, because the plankton flowing into the main tank is not chewed by the pump, and an acrylic tank will be easy to drill for an overflow.

It is very common to have a thriving community of amphipods, worms and such in a fuge without live rock. I have simply done it with big wads of floating macroalgae, a deep bed of sand, and some rubble on the bottom.
 
Good point.
In this context I understood that not to be an option;
"I would like to take a 10 gallon acrylic tank and sit it right beside the 29 gallon and use it as a refugium. I do not have a sump tank, nor do I really have a good place for one except beside."
 
The set up that Mogurnda is explaining is a really good one if you have space above the tank. It is simple, eficient and very benificial in all respects. Also stated, you do not need to have LR in the fug but you should have something for calerpa grasses and such to get a hold on.The nice thing about having the pump in the aquarium is the simple fact that it wont get clogged up by fauna as it may if it were in the refugium. If you wanted to get a little bit more inventive, you could also turn this refugium into a small surge tank. Also dont forget about your lighting.

As far as the refugium being beside the tank, you can use a siphon tube to fed the refugium as long as the tank hight is the same as the aquarium. It does not have to be below the other tank but if it is, you will have to use a skimmer box in the aquarium.
 
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"you can use a siphon tube to fed the refugium"

Hmmm, my friend unless there is some newly developed product out there, this is not a good idea in my opinion. A siphon tube can easily become clogged, meanwhile the return pump keeps pumping water out of the refugium to overflow your display. Also siphon tubes are notorious for losing flow due to air bubbles, power outages etc., a good overflow/prefilter box is designed to prevent all these issues, it will also skim water from the surface layer for your refugium. Also you might want to consider/research other macros besides caulerpas; I think there are some beneficial/less problematic options.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/caulerpafaq2.htm
 
OK, Floridaboy

By what means does an overflow box transfer water from the skimmer box to the secondary drain box in the hang on style prefilter set up?

No this is not the optimum type of set up but it will work and has for me many times in years past. It is the same type of set up that is commonly seen on the smaller hang on type refugiums. Most of the set ups use the pump to push water from the aquarium to the refugium. These systems are using a specifically designed refugium that allows for siphon blockage or break through an external overflow (which IMO is the real way to go anyway doing without the siphon tube entirely). A skimmer box set up has the same potential to break siphon due to bubbles in the system (IMO moreso) as a submerged siphon tube. There is a fix for this since we are talking about a DIY situation if you are using a powerhead with a venturi inlet. Since this is a plex 10g tank, I myself would be modifying it to be an overflow style of set up that would dump the water back into the main tank.

I have seen way to many overflow box set ups lose siphon for the same reasons that you are stating so either way you run the risk.

As far as the Calerpa goes, yes, there are many other options depending on what you have in your aquarium and the results that you are looking for. Calerpa was an example of something that many people use with good results and it is something that is generally available and easy to maintain. The key here is what you are trying to achieve through the refugium itself.
 
Many options I suppose, some overflow designs have defeated most of those problems, (some I have seen use no tubes at all) but we agree getting rid of the siphon issue would be best, and an overflow would solve the problem.
Admittedly a little confused by the goal here, most of the time I see sumps with skimmers and equipment below the display not side by side;
"can I stick one of my filters and my protein skimmer in the sump/refugium?"
Seems like kind of a cluttered mess visually, but maybe not a concern. I was seeing this as off to the side and below the display for some reason.
Alan, can you elevate the fuge and create an overflow back to your display?
If so, do it.
 
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