RTR's experimental tank

[ashdavid]

I am not entirly up to date on posting rules and I dont know if this is appropriate? But I was reading RTR's tank page and I saw this tank
"F20: 33XL, 24/7 veggie filter (experiment) w/input from F19, prefiltered pump return to F19, Internal Fluval and Eheim. Snails." in your list. As it is stated "experiment" I was wondering how it was going? Any info would be much appreciated, as I am conducting the same experiment. What constitutes your veggie filter? What's the water reading like Ph,NO3 and phosphates ect? How long have you had it running? Any words of comment would go a long way.

Btw is any one else using a veggie filter? If so please tell about the results.

 

[RTR]

The veggie filter itself is not an experiment, the 24/7 lighting is. The first plant chosen, anacharis, appeared to be starving to death (dwarfing), so swapped it out for Hygrophila difformis, which is doing better. The nitrates run very low (<<5 ppm) and undetectable phosphate, but it is a lot of water for very low bioload. It still gets my routine partials. This setup went together in the late summer/fall last year. I've used veggie filters for years, but mostly on reversed light cycle with conventional time on. I'm trying to see if 24/7 lighting in a refugium will give us satisfactory results in FW as it does in reef setups. At least no hair algae to date.

The experiment is also to see if the fry from F19 get swept downstream through the unscreened DIY constant level siphons to the veggie filter, from which they can be caught more easily than from the heavy rockwork of the adult's tank. The adults are not cooperating - they have not bred since moved from their former long-term home which was a 50 with a 20-long sump. The 50 developed a slow leak/seep from one corner, so had to be taken down for repair.

More veggie filter info:

http://www.aquasource.org/CMS/modul...ns&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=36&page=1

http://www.aquasource.org/CMS/modul...ns&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=39&page=1

HTH

 

[ashdavid]

The veggie filter itself is not an experiment, the 24/7 lighting is. The first plant chosen, anacharis, appeared to be starving to death (dwarfing), so swapped it out for Hygrophila difformis, which is doing better. The nitrates run very low (<<5 ppm) and undetectable phosphate, but it is a lot of water for very low bioload. It still gets my routine partials. This setup went together in the late summer/fall last year. I've used veggie filters for years, but mostly on reversed light cycle with conventional time on. I'm trying to see if 24/7 lighting in a refugium will give us satisfactory results in FW as it does in reef setups. At least no hair algae to date.

Very interesting. What initally grabed my attention was the 24/7 lighting. In particular how the plants faired with constant lighting(no dark cycle). I was thinking of trying the same sort experiment but with a two hour dark period so the plants could recoperate(I thought that two hours was too little, but after reading your coments i have reconsidered). I also think we can learn a lot from the differing reef methods now available. Particularly refugiums, livesand beds , 24/7 lighting and the use of algae. I really want to try the 24/7 lighting as well as a live sand bed, the only problem is that i dont know what critters to put in the sand and also where to get them. With a little more research i am sure i will come up with something. Anyways your setup is facinating to myself and probably many others.Let us know if the fish breed and how your ideas for the fry went. I await any information on how it went long term and any input you have regarding these topics.

 

[RTR]

Like everything else I play with for long, eventually it gets written up.

I have not done FW DSB, but I did multiple FW plenums, starting back in '98 and now winding down. Mine all worked in that nitrates went low and stayed low, but I see no point in it myself, as water changes are needed for other reasons. Only two plenum tanks left, and one of those is the next to be reset. The other will likely be left for the projected 10 years, just to say that I did. Those trials will get written up this summer/fall.

 

[ashdavid]

I suppose some of these methods could be considered over-kill and to keep them running could be time consuming(In your case b/c you have so many tanks). In my case I do however enjoy maintaining those type of tanks and ultimatly if one these methods was compromising my water quality i would stop it immediatly(definitely not implying you are compromising your water quality), but in acheiving my goal of the best water quality for my fish i am willing to try anything once. I have come to realize the importance of water changes and the effects they have on water quality even in low nutrient tanks, therefore i have steped up the intervals at which i do water changes(refering to my algal scrubber tank).Please keep us informed on your progress and I will try to keep some results on my scrubbed tank for anyone who is interested. Jmo but you can't learn anything good by beating around the bush so i will apologise to everyone for my bluntness in my past and future posts.

 

[RTR]

I like/need to play with techniques on tanks. It is one way to sustain interest when you have been doing this stuff forever. When my interest starts slipping down, it is time to find some new challenges to get my interest back up. Reefers and plant tank folks have both been the biggest innovators in recent years, so there are quite a number of techniques from both that can potentially be used in other tank styles and which are worth playing with. The whole plenum/DSB/refugium set of concepts (all related) has been popularized by the reefers, even though the underlying concepts have been in the hobby since the 1960s.

I do not at all mind doing a bit of extra upfront work well beyond simple tank setup, but I do not like to have to do or need to do a lot of routine but time comsuming maintenance. So setting a plenum or a veggie filter and such are initial time investments which do not carry heavy penalties on routine upkeep - those are things I play with. For me water changes are not penalties. Any multi-tank hobbyist has polished water changes to quick and easy somewhere along the way. I do accept water changes as a given, basic and easy and hugely contributory to ease of other upkeep and long-term health of the tank inhabitants. Ditto for planted tanks (but not plant tanks - I do not suffer from collectoritis), and veggie filters for those which are not suited to planting.

Experiments are interesting, some are not useful or not sufficiently so to be incorporated into my basic style of tank-keeping, but the trials themselves have interest. If you don't try, you never learn. If I am not learning something, a glass box of water can get pretty boring after a few years. Currently I only have three real display tanks, all the others are or have been trials, and the diplays may have techniques incorporated from those trials. The display which has a plenum and will be the one kept at least ten years (it is ~5 now), is a second-generation trial. Those keep my wife content, as they are in the living areas of the house (no small consideration).

 

[ashdavid]

Ahhh very good, we are on the same page, lol!! I too have to change my tanks around every now and again, for learning purposes and to keep things interesting. Thats why I came to this forum, to learn from other people who have had different experiences to me. Any way I will leave this post here and look forward to any advise you can share in the future :thm: