Does anyone know if salt will affect testing for pH. I have a 10 gallon, where there is a good amount of salt for my sick fish. This tank routinely give a pH reading of around 6 which is the lowest the kit will read. I've put in plently of pH balancing chemicals, and still no change of the reading which leads me to believe that the salt is affecting the reading as before I added salt it would give readings around 7. My 29 gallon also gives readings around 6.6, so I know it isn't the test kit.
salt and pH test
- Thread starter ttan
- Start date
If you understand the buffering system, you would relize that putting chemicals in your water will not always change the pH straight away, once all the buffers are used up it will change ,suddenly, if you put to much in. Jmo but you should not be adjusting your pH with chemicals, it makes everything too unstable. Salt itself will not give you false pH readings, but if there is other minerals in the salt that may cause the pH value to change. What is your tap water pH? And why are trying to change your pH? Whats wrong with your fish?
well whats wrong with my fish is that I beleive them to have columnaris, but I thought I'd give them a salt treatment before I go and get meds for them.
The pH of my tap is 7, the ph of the tank is reading 6. The pH of the 29 gallon is 6.6. the tank in question is a 10 gallon. I understand the idea of not putting too many chemicals in, and how pH can be unstable. My water has low Kh, my guess would be because of the water softener. The salt doesn't appear to be working so I'm going to start changing the water soon. There shouldn't be any reason for the pH to be so low in the tank. It gets regular maintenance, has all fake plants, and has only 3 fish in it. The only difference I can think of is the salt. The larger tank has co2 and live plants in it.
The pH of my tap is 7, the ph of the tank is reading 6. The pH of the 29 gallon is 6.6. the tank in question is a 10 gallon. I understand the idea of not putting too many chemicals in, and how pH can be unstable. My water has low Kh, my guess would be because of the water softener. The salt doesn't appear to be working so I'm going to start changing the water soon. There shouldn't be any reason for the pH to be so low in the tank. It gets regular maintenance, has all fake plants, and has only 3 fish in it. The only difference I can think of is the salt. The larger tank has co2 and live plants in it.
Salt won't affect your pH. For columnaris, I'd go ahead and do daily ~50% water changes until symptoms start to recede. You can try keeping salt at ~1 tbp/gal during this process. I have no idea if this helps, but I always seem to have ich and columnaris together, so I've never tried treating columnaris w/o salt. IME, you shouldn't use meds if you can avoid it.
Also, you should assume your pH is lower than 6 (i.e., never trust an extreme reading on a test kit--unless it's 0 ppm, obviously), which may be the reason you've had trouble adjusting it. That being said, don't worry about adjusting it and go with frequent water changes--the pH will stabilize but you might never know the reason.
As for what caused the pH drop--I have no useful insights. What pH balancing stuff did you add?
Also, you should assume your pH is lower than 6 (i.e., never trust an extreme reading on a test kit--unless it's 0 ppm, obviously), which may be the reason you've had trouble adjusting it. That being said, don't worry about adjusting it and go with frequent water changes--the pH will stabilize but you might never know the reason.
As for what caused the pH drop--I have no useful insights. What pH balancing stuff did you add?
If you have low KH and you want to raise it, you need to raise the level of carbonate or bi-carbonate. This can be done by putting a handfull of crushed coral in the tank and that will bring the kh up, it is easier to bring the ph up than down, so you are lucky in that regard. As for the ph difference I think you will find it is due to the live plants in the bigger tank, plants will bring the ph up by reducing the Co2 content in the water, and when you say Co2 do you mean that you are add it to the tank? Again I will say that the salt will not effect the reading of the ph, but may change the value because of minerals ect. What is the ph of your tap water after 24hours?
As for the disease I would continue doing the salt treatment, and up your water changes to once every two days, doing about 40-50% at a time, then adding the required amout of salt in the change water. Columnaris if you didn't already know is due to bad water quality and or stress put upon the fish. For it to go away you have to keep the water very clean. If your fish have this ,it only says two things that conditions are not ideal or you have added a sick fish to the tank without quarentining it first. Another thing that will happen in fish tanks, if maintenace is not performed adequately ph tends to go down as acids bind up in the system, and there is a possibility that this is occuring, correct me if I am wrong.
As for the disease I would continue doing the salt treatment, and up your water changes to once every two days, doing about 40-50% at a time, then adding the required amout of salt in the change water. Columnaris if you didn't already know is due to bad water quality and or stress put upon the fish. For it to go away you have to keep the water very clean. If your fish have this ,it only says two things that conditions are not ideal or you have added a sick fish to the tank without quarentining it first. Another thing that will happen in fish tanks, if maintenace is not performed adequately ph tends to go down as acids bind up in the system, and there is a possibility that this is occuring, correct me if I am wrong.
I decided a day or so ago to try the water change method before the meds.
mrakins: You made a good point about the pH being lower then what is being read, unfortunately I only have a reg pH test and a high range one.
I tried easy balance and even baking soda (NaHCO3, sodium bicarbonate) to get another reading. Im still puzzled by the pH drop, which is why I suspected the salt.
Ashdavid: Im kind of hesitant to use crushed coral as I do want to keep low pH fish such as rummy nose tetras and cardinals, and its the quarantine tank with the problem, so its not a huge issue as it would be if it was the larger tank. The larger tank has some co2 injected into it with a DIY setup. So I understand why the pH is lower in that, lol I haven't suffered through organic chem and the others without getting that much. Regarding the salt, when I say salt I meant more then the naCl as there are other stuff in it. Its the other stuff Im unsure of and I don't know what is in it, which is why I ask.
The pH of my tap is 7, and I do beleive I have a low Kh, as a month ago I got it tested and the petco employee said I had low Kh, I should've asked how low, but I didn't think they would know the answer. I've tried getting the numbers before and Im sure they try but they can't give me a straight answer.
The fish did suffer through an ammonia spike, with probably all the other stuff,(nitrite and nitrate), but I only tested for ammonia, and after I did it was enough for me to get the water changed. Eh it was a hectic time and I might've slipped that week or maybe something fell in, I had put it in the kitchen on the counter for the time being as we had just moved, and myself twice, (moved from college and the my permanent address changed), so Im sure he fish had had enough as well.
This wasn't the first time they've had it either, so after they get over this I plan on sterilizing the QT tank. Im not sure about the last bit about acids building up. I give it regular maintence and I've been changing the water, so Im not sure about that. But Im going to stop adding the salt and see if that changes anything and if not then go to the next hypothesis.
oh and I am using an AP master test kit
Thank you both for leaving helpful messages
mrakins: You made a good point about the pH being lower then what is being read, unfortunately I only have a reg pH test and a high range one.
I tried easy balance and even baking soda (NaHCO3, sodium bicarbonate) to get another reading. Im still puzzled by the pH drop, which is why I suspected the salt.
Ashdavid: Im kind of hesitant to use crushed coral as I do want to keep low pH fish such as rummy nose tetras and cardinals, and its the quarantine tank with the problem, so its not a huge issue as it would be if it was the larger tank. The larger tank has some co2 injected into it with a DIY setup. So I understand why the pH is lower in that, lol I haven't suffered through organic chem and the others without getting that much. Regarding the salt, when I say salt I meant more then the naCl as there are other stuff in it. Its the other stuff Im unsure of and I don't know what is in it, which is why I ask.
The pH of my tap is 7, and I do beleive I have a low Kh, as a month ago I got it tested and the petco employee said I had low Kh, I should've asked how low, but I didn't think they would know the answer. I've tried getting the numbers before and Im sure they try but they can't give me a straight answer.
The fish did suffer through an ammonia spike, with probably all the other stuff,(nitrite and nitrate), but I only tested for ammonia, and after I did it was enough for me to get the water changed. Eh it was a hectic time and I might've slipped that week or maybe something fell in, I had put it in the kitchen on the counter for the time being as we had just moved, and myself twice, (moved from college and the my permanent address changed), so Im sure he fish had had enough as well.
This wasn't the first time they've had it either, so after they get over this I plan on sterilizing the QT tank. Im not sure about the last bit about acids building up. I give it regular maintence and I've been changing the water, so Im not sure about that. But Im going to stop adding the salt and see if that changes anything and if not then go to the next hypothesis.
oh and I am using an AP master test kit
Thank you both for leaving helpful messages
Sometimes the Co2 content in tap water can be high, which will give a high ph reading , after leting it sit for a day or to that Co2 will disapate and the ph will come down. And if you are going to keep soft water fish then why are you putting baking soda in there, that will have the same effect as crushed coral, only adding baking soda will be harder keep the ph stable. You are giving conflicting information here, so I ask you what to you want to do?. If you want to keep soft water fish just leave the water the way it is and your best bet is to do half weekly water changes to combate a pH crash, this will ensure that there are plenty of buffers in the water so they can do their job. I sounds like you fish have been weakened by the ammonia/nitrite spike and have sucombed to a bacterial infection, again I will say water changes and salt is you best bet.
lol yes, I am a bit conflicted, I suppose. The salt is made by aquarium pharmeceuticals, and is called doc wellfish's aquarium salt. I suppose I could go ask them about their product and see what their response is, but I think I am going to wait and see myself once the salt is gone. My goal was to keep a pH around 6.8, but I could live with 7. So when it read 6 I got worried. The pH from the tap was from a bucket I left out overnight so I could test the pH. I've come to the same conclusion about baking soda, I've been trying it out to how well it works, I've been trying to do some DIY stuff to safe money. My other conclusion about baking soda was that it didn't raise the pH above 7, which I liked.
Thanks again guys
Thanks again guys
This is backwards, CO2 Lowers Ph!!!! it creates carbonic acid. Tap water sledom if ever lowers In Ph when it stabilises. It almost always raises.
There is no doubt you have low KH. if you tap reading is 7.0 and if it doesn't raise drastically after several hours in an open container then your KH level is at or below 1 degree. The natural processes in a fish tank will consume Kh and cause PH to crash. Since you have almost no Kh to begin with, it takes no time at all to run out of it and see a huge PH drop. You then take a tank that has no Kh and add change water that has olmost none, and your water change did little or nothing to help the situation. I would also bet the PH is below 6, but measuring it when it is tht low really isn't necessary. just suffice it to say It's low enough to cause trouble and needs to be dealt with in some way.
The big issue here is to quit obsessing about some magical ideal PH. Get your KH up to 2-3 degrees minimum and live with the ph it gives you. Make changes slowly so you don't shock your fish and once you have reached a level that holds steady you can adjust your maintenance schedule to something resonable that keeps it there. Once you get it where you like it, Crushed coral will usually keep it there, baking soda is good for adjusting the Kh of your change water.
As mentioned by AshDavid, Salt will not effect you PH. Unless you are using some really wierd salt that has minerals.
If you are worried about the health of you soft water fsih, then work on lowering TDS (total dissolved solids) levels. Your water softener is the biggest enemy you have hands down. It takes magnesium and calcium and replaces them with sodium, at roughly twice the solids levels you had previously. In other words, your softener makes the water twice as hard as far as your fish are concerned. Hard water in our world means it's hard to get soap suds. This causes much confusion in how a water softener really works. TDS levels are the true measure of how hard or soft water is and are what soft water fish really care about. The next biggest enemy is the PH stabilising chemicals. They add solids as well. It always cracked me up that Discus buffers added solids to the water when all a discus wants is less solids in their water.
The bottom line is that you will have no trouble keeping most soft water fish in hard water/ high PH. Fish adapt quite easily, not to mention that most of your fish are probably tank raised and know little to nothing about what kind of water they are supposed to like anyhow.
Dave