Septicemia... again.

[mel_20_20]

My Brochis is showing signs of septicemia.

I have a new 40 gallon (I have a lot of pics and want to do a tank build thread on it, and I want suggestions on stocking it once this crisis is resolved) and I have kept the parameters pristine while cycling, and it is fully cycled. I was able to seed the filter with bb from my healthy 10 gallon tank filter so it was cycled in a week. (I have an AC50 and an AquaTech 10-15 on the 10 gallon)

I do weekly 50% water changes and have always kept the ammonia and nitrites at 0, and as soon as the nitrates began to appear I threw anachris in there so it keeps the nitrates around 10.

The ph is around 7.4 and after water changes around 7.6. I don't have gh and kh readings. I have some manzanita in the tank and a nice two pound Texas holey rock, for now, to help buffer. I eventually want this tank to be an Amazonian Clearwater Stream biotope... possibly the Tocantins river area, but that's something to be discussed in the tank build thread later.

I have two airstones and an AC70 HOB on the tank for filtration. The substrate is a two inch deep sand bed; thoroughly washed play sand. I have some Java moss, anachris as mentioned, and guppy grass.

I think the problem I am now having is due to a 200 watt VisiTherm Stealth heater malfunctioning. The temperatures in my tank would swing from 79.5 down to 70 and back up to 80 in a few hours and this went on for a week or two. I struggled with adjusting it and then realised that something was terribly wrong with the heater, though it was new.

I called Marineland and they said they'd send me a new one but it took several days to get to me. I have had the new heater for about 10 days and the temp is stable, but I think the two weeks this temp fluctuation went on has caused the Brochis to get sick, now.

I have been scrutinizing him for the last week and thought I began to see subtle signs and today I have made a definite diagnosis of septicemia.

I believe that the temperature fluctuations are the reason my Brochis is showing signs of septicemia. I successfully treated him for septicemia this past summer due to a mini cycle in the 10 gallon tank, and at that time I treated him with Maracyn and Maracyn II.

Would Triple Sulfa be a good medicine to treat this infection? The packaging says that it is effective for septicemia, and I read that this is one antibaterial medication that won't harm the biological filter bed. I also thought that since I used Maracyn and Maracyn II previously on this fish there could be some resistance to those meds so something different might be better.

I did a 50% water change this morning and added the dose for 40 gallons. I have two Otos that show no signs obvious signs of infection, but I fear that they may need to be treated as well. I could set up another tank as a hospital, but was hoping to keep the Brochis in the 40 along with the Otos; my thinking is that it would be less stressful for him If I didn't have to move him . Also, my 10 gallon is occupied by bunches of Ramshorns, two ADFs, and an injured shrimp I've posted about in the invert section.

My 5 gallon is housing the three other Macrobrachius sp. shrimp that beat up the one I'm trying to save in the 10 gallon.

I would have to go buy a tub or something to use as a hospital, and I'm hoping I can just treat him in the big tank but I don't want to kill the bb in the filter.

The Brochis has redness around the pectorals, some redness around the vent, also redness posterior to the operculum, and one thin streak in the first fin ray of his dorsal fin. No streaks in the caudal fin or on his body. I feel that I"m catching this early as I have microvision due to extreme nearsightedness, and I can see the most minute changes easily.

Please advise. Triple Sulfa is not very expensive, but the two Maracyns would be in dosages for a 40 gallon tank, so I'm hoping that the Triple Sulfa would be acceptable. All help will be appreciated.

 

[jackiomy]

Oh, Mel, I am so sorry. You have been going the rounds with your fish lately. I wish I could advise but you are the one I go to for illness questions. I hope the little guy gets better.

 

[mel_20_20]

Thanks, Jacki. I am pretty frustrated, for sure. I treated this guy for septicemia and he has been in great health until the stress of the temperature fluctuations. The beat up shrimp is another patient I have right now, so I'm Dr. Mel for a while, lol.

In regards to treating my Brochis, "Elvis", I know that Maracyn and Maracyn II are an excellent combo for septicemia and I may need to treat with those two, if the consensus is that Triple Sulfa is not a good choice.

Triple Sulfa is not a true antibiotic, it is an antimicrobial, but I've searched for antibiotics/antimicrobials that will treat this and at the same time not be harmful to the beneficial bacteria in the tank, and the sulfa is pretty economical as opposed to some of the others.

That, of course, is not my main concern; I can always go through another cycling process with the 40 gallon if the bb are destroyed, or move him to a smaller tank for treatment and get some other antibiotc/antimicrobial. I spent about $75 on him the last time, (cost of setting up a hospital tank included so my hubby didn't gripe too much over the total cost to cure a $4.99 fish, lol.)

I'm just hoping I can get a good word on the Triple Sulfa from one of the gurus here that may have had personal experience with using this to treat septicemia.

Thanks for the support, Jacki.

 

[pinkertd]

Sorry to hear this Mel! I do not have experience with using the triple sulfa so I can't help you there. I do know what good products the maracyn line is. I can tell you the pet stores around here only carry the cheap heaters. I've had to run for a new heater twice, only to find that they don't keep the temperature worth a hoot. So I wound up placing an order for my trusty visitherm deluxe heaters, using the store heaters best I can while waiting for my order, then marching those worthless heaters back to the pet store when my order arrives. While the visitherms including the stealths can malfunction like any other product, glad you stuck with the visitherm for the long term. Those fluctuating temps are very hard on the fishies. I am surprised that the result of this was septicimia though since that's bacterial in origin. Bacteria doesn't usually thrive at low temperatures. I would have expected ick from fluctuating temps.

 

[mel_20_20]

I believe that what can happen is that the extreme fluctuations in temperature are extremely stressful and have a negative impact on the immune system, leaving the fish susceptible to any opportunistic infection.

For fish, just as is true for humans, there are pathogenic bacteria in the environment that do not always cause illness until the immune system takes a hit, then infection and illness result.

Aeromonas is the most common cause of septicemia, though come varieties of Strep and other pathogens can cause septicemia.

According to the manufacturer, Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Triple Sulfa works well to treat it, and I hope that will be the case here.

 

[froglover007]

that is too bad. I always go to you for advice so I cant really help

 

[mel_20_20]

Update

I've been treating my Brochis in the 40 gallon with Triple Sulfa.

I did a 50% water change before the first dose on Thurdsay the 15th.
As directed on the packaging, I dosed the tank the next day but no WC.
Third day of treatment I did 25% WC (as directed) and dosed the tank.
Fourth day of treatment, I did another 25% WC and dosed.
Fifth day 25% WC and dosed as directed.
Sixth day 25% WC and dosed as directed.
Today I didn't do a WC but dosed as directed.

Tank parameters have stayed at:
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrates 10
temp 77.7 F
ph 7.8 (I'm wondering if the THR chunk is too much for the tank. The ph for a long time has been around 7.2 to 7.4 but at this point it may be climbing)
I need to get the testing kits for GH and KH

My Brochis has been swimming and eating normally, but I still see a thin red blood streak in the first and largest fin ray on his dorsal fin. Also, some tiny thread-like red areas in the roots, so to speak, of the tiny fin rays of the pectorals. The base of the caudal fin is slightly red as well.

I don't know if the Triple Sulfa is going to clear this up in ten days.

The Triple Sulfa is reputed to not have a negative impact on the bb in the tank and this appears to be true, so far.

The Ottos are fat and sassy and loving the reddish brown algae on the rock, and the fuzzy stuff on the manzanita.

A few Ramshorn are in the tank and show no signs of ill effects from the medication.

I've been feeding the Brochis some Brine shrimp pellets and Veggie w/Calcium pellets from kensfish and he forages the sand bed of the tank frequently.

I'm going to try to get a closeup pic of "Elvis" to post as soon as I can.