set up for 10 gallon - some questions

Oscaremmy, I think it is possible to do a fishy cycle when going about it the right way.

I went to an independent LFS and explained what I had - a Mini Bow 5 gallon tank, with standard gravel, a Whisper filter, heater and some artificial plants that had been set up for about 2 weeks. I explained that I wanted hardy fish and wanted to know how to properly get the tank prepared for fish. I was very clear that I didn't wish to kill any fish and that just because a fish was "cheap" didn't mean it was any less valuable as a living thing! I was sold BioSpira, 5 neon tetras and one ADF and assured that I could add them all at the same time and everyone would live happily ever after. I was very skeptical and questioned this advice and was told it would be fine. Well....the BioSpira never worked, the tank went thru a huge cycle, ammonia spiked etc...I did a lot of water changes but couldn't keep up with them enough to keep the fish safe and they gradually died. The ADF survived and finished out the cycle. I learned a lot during this and discovered this forum shortly after starting the cycle.

I have since learned that neons are NOT hardy fish and not good to start out with!

I would avoid a fish cycle again if possible. Maybe some day I'll do it but I'm far too novice to feel comfortable with it any time soon!

So that's the background!

Any stocking suggestions off hand? I know there are a lot of thread on 10 gallon tanks. I'll have to do a search!
 
Definitely stick the filter on your established 5 gallon tank for 2-3 weeks to get it started. You can then transfer it to the new tank and "fishless" cycle it by adding ammonia for a couple of days to ensure that you have sufficient bacteria. (or just be like me, add fish and do several large water changes the first week and call it done :) ) The filter you have is sufficient for a lighter bioload only. It is not a bad idea to pick up another one of the same spec's (100gph for a 10gallon tank) to go with it.
 
If you want to do a fishless cycle, do a fishless cycle. I'll never do a fish-in cycle again. Not because I've lost fish, but because it's way easier to do fishless. No water changes!
 
doreenjoy said:
If you want to do a fishless cycle, do a fishless cycle. I'll never do a fish-in cycle again. Not because I've lost fish, but because it's way easier to do fishless. No water changes!
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Not really true doreen...when you add fish, you still have to do water changes, right? If you don't, you'll stunt growth, even if you can control water chemistry. So, with a fishless cycle, there are no water changes when you have an 'empty' tank. That's the same with a fishy cycle! The difference is, those of us who fishy cycle get to enjoy fish waaay sooner - like, several weeks sooner - than people doing a fishless cycle.

When you finally add fish, you have to start doing water changes - weekly I assume? So, since I have never had to make water changes more than weekly, what's the advantage in terms of water changes? I can't see one.

I agree that if you are nervous about being able to manipulate water chemistry in a fishy cycle, you should avoid doing one. As other posters have found, doing a fishy cycle does not prevent you losing fish, because many weak, diseased and stressed fish are on the market and would not survive long no matter how careful you are setting up your tank and cycling it. However, I think it is absolutely right to care deeply about the welfare of every fish - I am just the same and get upset when I lose one - we are 100% responsible for their proper care and protection, so it is down to every aquarist to do what he or she feels is right for the welfare of their pets.:)
 
it's not uncommon in an unresearched fishy cycle (or even in ones that were planned out beforehand) to have to do daily or twice daily large water changes to reduce ammonia and nitrite levels. that's very different and much more time-consuming than regular weekly changes.
 
wataugachicken said:
it's not uncommon in an unresearched fishy cycle (or even in ones that were planned out beforehand) to have to do daily or twice daily large water changes to reduce ammonia and nitrite levels. that's very different and much more time-consuming than regular weekly changes.
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+1. I ended up doing daily water changes for almost 6 weeks for the inadvertent fishy cycle I ended up in (typical "listened to bad advice from the LFS" story). Sadly a couple guppies acting strange at the same time, and eventually not making it, was the first indication something was really wrong with the advice *sigh*.

FWIW I also tried Bio-spira and was unlucky with it (twice) despite keeping it in a cooler on the way back and it appearing to be refrigerated there.

Ant
 
So, it makes me wonder...was I just 'lucky?' I don't believe that's scientific; water chemistry is about science, not luck, so I guess the 'magic' formula is not too many fish, use small hardy fish (I used 6 zebra danios in tank 1, 4 dwarf platies and 4 dwarf corys in tank 2 and 6 rasboras and 4 dwarf corys in tank 3. Use PLENTY of ammonia-nitrate absorbing plants like cabomba and hornwort, with adequate lighting and ferts to ensure they prosper, add ammo-lock to your filter to suck out any ammonia that begins to accumulate, (filter should have a greater throughput than your tank would appear to need - I have 20g filters on my 10g tanks), plus Prime (I have never used BioSpira) and Stress Coat.

Substrate is peat covered by filter sand. However, initially I had a UGF with colored gravel in tank 1, with no issues, and was running the 20g filter as well.

I am not sure how a tank would get to daily water changes for 6 weeks unless there was no method of handling the ammonia and nitrites plus the tank being overstocked, with overfed fish and no live plants...

When I was younger I kept Lake Malawis and Oscars and never did a fishless cycle (I used Eheim externals then, with tap water dechlorinator) and never lost a single fish to cycling (in fact, I never lost a fish in almost 2 years); before that my dad and I had a lot of tanks between us, always with live plants and NEVER did a fishless cycle, always used city tap water with dechlorinator...

Hey, I am not against fishless cycling here...just that it is perfectly possible to cycle a 10g using acceptable stock levels and planting. If that were not the case, I'd have 3 tanks of dead fish now. :)
 
My stock is 3 guppies in a 10g with java moss as the only live plant and an Aquaclear 30 so it's definitely not heavily stocked or underfiltered. Actually a lot lower stock than your examples.

Granted a heavily planted tank could certainly deal with the ammonia better but this goal in this has been to keep it maintainable for my daughter (with my assistance/safety net) so we've kept to things she can position/etc. herself. Some java fern will be the next thing for her to try to work with probably.

Prime is used with every water changer. I don't run ammo-lock or Stress Coat but rather changed out water to keep ammonia and nitrites to a minimum. We also keep feeding to one small feeding a day and skip a day on the weekends. No more than the fish can quickly eat.

Ant
 
Ant, I wasn't attacking you - hope you don't think I was! I was surprised at daily water changes...now I'm even more puzzled, with only 3 guppies in the tank, as to how ammonia could have built to such a level.

I suppose the fishy/fishless debate is one that will run and run, each person choosing what they feel to be the way to go.
 
Nope, no offense taken. Just offering an example where a fairly reasonable bioload can still lead to a lot of work. Also it probably could have been every other day for me but after losing the first two I was being very careful to make sure that ammonia didn't get out of control.

I think the key may very well be having plenty of plants to make proper use of the ammonia. I've seen people swear by various stem plants during cycling to make sure there's an ammonia consumer while the bacteria is established.

Ant
 
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