setting up a new tank

[Hammy & Waf]

i have a 40 gallon breeder that i want to set up. right now i have one fire bellied newt in a 20 gallon long, it's a really cool tank, but it could be better. i was thinking of mixing fire bellied newts and fire bellied toads. maybe 2 newts and 2 toads in a 40 gallon breeder. is there any issues, advice or suggestions about my idea, it would help greatly.

 

[DAVIDFBT]

I like the idea, but the water can't be too deep and have a big surface area, because the toads might get tired in it and drown. Unless, if you use a big chunk of floating driftwood in it, you should be okay.

Other than that, make sure your toads are big enough so they don't get eaten by the newts.

 

[Notophthalmus]

That sounds like a huge setup for four little amphibians! If it were my tank I'd plant it thoroughly and add some green or gray treefrogs and a second species of newt, but that's just me; I'm very susceptible to 'empty tank syndrome'.

Some amphibian keepers will jump down your throat if you even suggest mixing species and tell you "They will all die within a week!", but I don't buy it. I think your tank will be just fine.

 

[Vicious_Fish]

Some amphibian keepers will jump down your throat if you even suggest mixing species and tell you "They will all die within a week!", but I don't buy it. I think your tank will be just fine.

That's because many species of frogs eat well....smaller species of frogs. Not to mention that fire-bellied newts and toads can release toxins into the water that can make other species sick. And FBT that are not well fed have been known to injure FBN by trying to eat them. You can usually see this in pet stores that have tanks housing the two because many of the newts are missing toes. But hey it's not my tank, so go crazy.

 

[Notophthalmus]

Fire-bellied toads and fire-bellied newts often injure each other in an overcrowded pet store tank with a dozen frogs and a dozen newts with little cover and often inadequate filtration in a far smaller space than the one being suggested; that kind of situation would lead to stress and injury even in a single-species tank. This is a very different situation.

Obviously mixing big predatory animals with smaller animals is a bad idea; cane toads and mantellas will get along no better than oscars and tetras. And mixing animals with very different environmental ideas is also a bad idea. But in a big tank like this, several animals of similar size with similar environmental requirements can be kept without difficulty. I say, go for it.

 

[Vicious_Fish]

Obviously mixing big predatory animals with smaller animals is a bad idea; cane toads and mantellas will get along no better than oscars and tetras. And mixing animals with very different environmental ideas is also a bad idea. But in a big tank like this, several animals of similar size with similar environmental requirements can be kept without difficulty. I say, go for it.

I totally agree with you on this but my real concern is the toxins being released by the two fire-bellies and the effects it will have on the other species in the tank. Amphibian skin is so sensitive to poisons and toxins. Many people who hold their pets don't realize that the animals can absorb through their skin all the stuff on their hands like dish soap, lotions, hair products, household cleaners, etc.

Also many people who build these setups containing FBT or FBN do not provide an alternative source of drinking water besides the water that the animals live in. Possibly large frequent water changes and good filtration will help keep the water clear of toxins. Personally, I would keep these two species in a species only tank.

 

[Notophthalmus]

I didn't realize Bombina were so potent; if that's the case, then maybe you would want to leave the newts out. Still, having such a low density of Fire-bellied Toads will go a long ways toward diluting the toxins to very low levels, especially if you're performing fairly frequent water changes.

I've kept Eastern Newts, Pickerel Frogs, and other species with high skin toxin levels in community tanks with no problems. But I don't have any experience with Fire-bellied Toads in a community setting.

 

[Vicious_Fish]

I've kept Eastern Newts, Pickerel Frogs, and other species with high skin toxin levels in community tanks with no problems. But I don't have any experience with Fire-bellied Toads in a community setting.

I've kept both those species before but in separate enclosures. Did you keep the Pickerel with any other species of frogs? I've heard cases where they've killed all the other frog species kept with them because of their toxins. Of course this could have happened in a small enclosure like a 10 gallon aquarium.

 

[Vicious_Fish]

Fire-bellied toad toxins don't really effect mammals. People have been known to get rashes but that's about it. You should still wash your hands if you do handle them. Their toxins mainly effect other amphibians, reptiles and fish.

 

[Notophthalmus]

The Pickerel Frog is in with two Tiger Salamanders; they're in a fairly large tank, but they often use the same cover objects or water dish at the same time, and they come in direct physical contact with one another frequently.

The deaths I've heard attributed to Pickerels occurred in collecting bags where several stressed amphibians were crammed together; I haven't heard of such deaths in tanks, but that's not to say it hasn't happened.