Setting up a Tropheus tank

[laka]

I would like to set up my first Tropheus tank.
Some background first. I have had fish tanks for 15 years. 13 of those freshwater fish only and the last 2 planted tank.

I am currently running a 180g planted tank and love it.
I would like to set up a second tank with a totally different theme.
I have never kept a species only tank and have never before had old world cichlids. I would also like a challenge.

I have decided on a Tropheus only species tank.
This is my anticipated set up:

Tank size:The largest tank i have is 64g (48*18*18)

Substrate: coral sand with calcareous rock and slate mounted in 3
sections. In the middle of the tank along the back and one
on each end of the tank.

Water chemistry. Tap water is pH7.2-7.4, GH/KH 1-2 degrees only.
Will raise pH (and KH)by adding baking soda,
Will raise GH by adding CaCl2 and MgSO4 with each 50%
weekly water change.
Filtration: I would like to get away with the most efficient and least
maintenace set up.
So this is what i will do.

The above tank is not set up. Obviously it needs to be cycled.
Once the tank substrate/rock sculpture and water chemistry is
taken care of, i will add 30 feeder gold fish for 2-3 months.

Filtration: Internal power head with large sponge filter only.
Once tank cycled i will feed the goldfish heavily 2-3 times daily
and closely monitor NH3/NO2 levels to see if this simple filtration
system is sufficient. I think it will be. If not, i will go to an
external canister set up.

Water circulation: Hydor Koralia 2000litres/hour.
Diet: Spirulina flakes+ frozen zuchinni/peas/shrimp?
Light: T8 fluoro 48 watts on for 12hrs/day to encourage algae growth.

Now for some specific questions:

1) how many ADULT Tropheus can i keep in the above set up and in what ratio male/female. I read anywhere from a polygenous harem with one male to 1 male/3-4 females. Will the former give less aggression?

2) Should i buy an already established adult colony (expensive) or buy more juveniles and let them develop their own pecking order with some possible losses along the way?

3) Do i need to add any additional salt. ie. marine salt?

4)Is there any difference in social behaviour between the species? ie duboisi vs. moori?

5) Is adding shrimp to my vegies OK diet wise. Do i keep the shell on?

One final request.
With all due respect, please DO NOT answer to the above if you have not kept
these fish as a colony. As with everything in life, i believe there is a significant difference between reading or hearsay about a topic and actually getting your "fingers wet".

LAKA

 

[Arakkis]

ok sounds ok, but 1 rule never OVERFEED, Veggies can easily be overdone. Personally I'd use Danichi Tropheus formula as a staple. Feed every other day only. They can be fine even fed every three days as they have super long guts.

They will eat shrimp but in small ammounts as you have to watch thier protien intake

Harem is good. I'd go with good sized sub-adults ~2in or larger if you have the $$.

Duboisi are a tad calmer but I like the color of the moorii

 

[Arakkis]

Oh yeah, I'd raise your pH to at least 7.9 to 8.2 with a cichlid buffer and maybe some epsom salt too if you can't get cichlid salts

 

[RiftLakeRosco]

he mentioned raising ph already. and the coral sand will keep it up for him. tropheus are awesome, and funny little guys. the aggression level is amazing amongst themselves. so my only reason for posting here is to reccommend u not add just a couple at a time. i know they r pricey fish, but more fish = less aggression directed at each individual fish.
just my opinion, and make sure u post some pics!!!! tropheus r my favorite...

 

[laka]

Thanks for your quick replies guys.

I do intend putting the whole colony in at once.

As for feeding, i have read anywhere from 3-6 times daily, and this is for adult fish!

What you say about their long intestinal tracts and digestion makes sense Arakkis. I plan to only feed once a day with the spirulina flake and use the vegies every other day.

Fish in the wild often go without eating for days. What makes Tropheus an exception?

LAKA

 

[rogersb]

I would like to set up my first Tropheus tank.
Some background first. I have had fish tanks for 15 years. 13 of those freshwater fish only and the last 2 planted tank.

I am currently running a 180g planted tank and love it.
I would like to set up a second tank with a totally different theme.
I have never kept a species only tank and have never before had old world cichlids. I would also like a challenge.

I have decided on a Tropheus only species tank.
This is my anticipated set up:

Tank size:The largest tank i have is 64g (48*18*18)

Substrate: coral sand with calcareous rock and slate mounted in 3
sections. In the middle of the tank along the back and one
on each end of the tank.

Water chemistry. Tap water is pH7.2-7.4, GH/KH 1-2 degrees only.
Will raise pH (and KH)by adding baking soda,
Will raise GH by adding CaCl2 and MgSO4 with each 50%
weekly water change.
Filtration: I would like to get away with the most efficient and least
maintenace set up.
So this is what i will do.

The above tank is not set up. Obviously it needs to be cycled.
Once the tank substrate/rock sculpture and water chemistry is
taken care of, i will add 30 feeder gold fish for 2-3 months.

Filtration: Internal power head with large sponge filter only.
Once tank cycled i will feed the goldfish heavily 2-3 times daily
and closely monitor NH3/NO2 levels to see if this simple filtration
system is sufficient. I think it will be. If not, i will go to an
external canister set up.

Water circulation: Hydor Koralia 2000litres/hour.
Diet: Spirulina flakes+ frozen zuchinni/peas/shrimp?
Light: T8 fluoro 48 watts on for 12hrs/day to encourage algae growth.

Now for some specific questions:

1) how many ADULT Tropheus can i keep in the above set up and in what ratio male/female. I read anywhere from a polygenous harem with one male to 1 male/3-4 females. Will the former give less aggression? I started with a group of 20 in my 75g. 16f/4m. I have had fry and seem to find little aggression, but one male was weeded out after a year of being in the tank and successful broods occuring, so expect some losses at some point. As for adults, I would say 16. Try to get 13f/3m.

2) Should i buy an already established adult colony (expensive) or buy more juveniles and let them develop their own pecking order with some possible losses along the way? Buy 2" juvies. They're sexable at this point and are quite reasonably priced. You will also get the satisfaction of watching them mature.

3) Do i need to add any additional salt. ie. marine salt? No marine salt.

4)Is there any difference in social behaviour between the species? ie duboisi vs. moori? I've only lept lupota and duboisi. i've read duboisi are the easiest for beginners, but I found them aggressive compared to my lupotas. I'm sure all fish have different attitudes, just my personal experience.

5) Is adding shrimp to my vegies OK diet wise. Do i keep the shell on? I feed shrimp every week. many tropheus keepers do, it's quite common. Many say they feed it once a week after their water change and they find it induces spawning behavior. I don't have that with mine, they spawn when they feel like it.

One final request.
With all due respect, please DO NOT answer to the above if you have not kept
these fish as a colony. As with everything in life, i believe there is a significant difference between reading or hearsay about a topic and actually getting your "fingers wet".

LAKA

The last thing I would like to comment on is your set up. It would be best to have 2 territories as opposed to 3. With the rock in the middle any alpha male will assume it's part of his territory along with a rock on the side which will lead to him then claiming the rock on the other side. Many of us keep no rocks at all to keep them from making territories they defend fiercely, some of us have 2 on opposite ends. It is strongly advised against to have a pile in the middle. I'll PM you a place to find reasonable priced T's in your neck of the woods.

 

[Pittbull]

Cool deal you have done your homework my friend and really you have answered most of your questions , yes i have had Troph's before and the veggies is the best way to go for them and will succumb to bloat with a high protein diet so a meaty treat will suffice maybe once or twice a week..

As for the salts and soda your thinking about adding is good but once you start it with a current species you usually have to stay with it or slowly do away and abrupt change will wipe your fish out..

You mention sand maybe, go with aragonite sand and crushed coral substrate this will act as your buffer, another way to add natural decor to help with the buffering is adding a lot of shells you could add these to the back or behind your main rock formations along with rocks that will buffer out as well like Texas Holey Rock and limestone, with all these objects added will help you out with the buffer of raising PH and hardness..

Colony in that size of tank you would not want to do nothing less than 12 Troph if you can acquire 2 males and the rest females would be best but if not than i would go with 15 Troph and like you said you will get a KIA or two, i would also do the juvies let them work it out aye..

As for filtration - i have a friend who only has two powerheads with huge sponges on the intakes and thats the only filtration he has with 12 Troph maybe bembi type if i am correct in a 90gal and honestly he doesnt have any issues but he is also doing 2 water changes a week as well, as for me i believe in over filtration and is what i do, yeah keep us posted on that..

As for marine salt i wouldnt add it they dont need it and if you keep your perimeters with ph and hardness in check you should be fine..

Good deal my friend sounds like it will be a sweet setup photos are a must take care..

 

[laka]

Pittbull

Is aragonite or crushed coral substrate better at buffering pH than coral sand?

Also i do intend making my own salt mix to raise GH using MgSO4, CaCl2 and K2SO4-to add K in the water. I will use the "Fertilator" that is a calculator for determining amounts of above compounds to add for your particular size tank to obtain desired concentrations in mg/l based on Lake Tang chemical water analysis that can easily be found.. I understand from Lake Tang. water analysis there is some NaCl in the water. The Na ions from baking soda and Cl ions from CaCl2 should combine in solution to generate some salt (NaCl). Is this the reason you advise not to add any extra salt in the form of marine salt or is it merely because the small amount of NaCl in the natural waters does not need to be replicated in our tanks as breeding and general fish health will not be affected?

LAKA

 

[rogersb]

Pittbull

Is aragonite or crushed coral substrate better at buffering pH than coral sand?

Also i do intend making my own salt mix to raise GH using MgSO4, CaCl2 and K2SO4-to add K in the water. I will use the "Fertilator" that is a calculator for determining amounts of above compounds to add for your particular size tank to obtain desired concentrations in mg/l based on Lake Tang chemical water analysis that can easily be found.. I understand from Lake Tang. water analysis there is some NaCl in the water. The Na ions from baking soda and Cl ions from CaCl2 should combine in solution to generate some salt (NaCl). Is this the reason you advise not to add any extra salt in the form of marine salt or is it merely because the small amount of NaCl in the natural waters does not need to be replicated in our tanks as breeding and general fish health will not be affected?

LAKA

Maybe you'll find it fun, but mostly it's a pain to keep up such a regimen. Scratch the salt all together. The coral sand will be great for buffering. Crushed coral is advised against because of the pockets it can create. Just get a few snails to dig through the sand, they'll keep it sifted and you won't get any anerobic pockets. If you can find some limestone or even dry reef base rock they will act as a good buffer also.

You will most likely be buying tropheus from a local breeder, so realize those fish have been kept in local water most likely. Find out what they do, then try to mimic it. If you make perfect lake tang conditions and the fish have been living in 7.4 pH tap water, you will freak them. It will be fine to change their conditions over time, but find out your breeders conditions first.

 

[Pittbull]

rogersb wrote:

You will most likely be buying tropheus from a local breeder, so realize those fish have been kept in local water most likely. Find out what they do, then try to mimic it. If you make perfect lake tang conditions and the fish have been living in 7.4 pH tap water, you will freak them. It will be fine to change their conditions over time, but find out your breeders conditions first.

Amen brother..

laka wrote:

Is aragonite or crushed coral substrate better at buffering pH than coral sand?

You could use both, they are both good at maintaining your hardness, but if you just want to use one or the other that will be fine as well.. crushed coral, aragonite and coral sand isnt it the same stuff just in different consistency it all maintains hardness you decide.. me i like the look of aragonite..

laka wrote:

Also i do intend making my own salt mix to raise GH using MgSO4, CaCl2 and K2SO4-to add K in the water. I will use the "Fertilator" that is a calculator for determining amounts of above compounds to add for your particular size tank to obtain desired concentrations in mg/l based on Lake Tang chemical water analysis that can easily be found.. I understand from Lake Tang. water analysis there is some NaCl in the water. The Na ions from baking soda and Cl ions from CaCl2 should combine in solution to generate some salt (NaCl). Is this the reason you advise not to add any extra salt in the form of marine salt or is it merely because the small amount of NaCl in the natural waters does not need to be replicated in our tanks as breeding and general fish health will not be affected?

For this statement if you are going to be buying Troph's right from the lake and the fish have never touched our water systems than have fun because the cost of maintaining such a system will be expensive not to mention the cost of such fish being caught from the lake and shipping.. to answer your question yes you could use the above method if obtaining specimens from Tanganyika waters.. No if the fish are from florida and never seen the lake in their life time..

And as roger said already you will need to find out if they were (most likely were) captive bred in the usa poss. florida and what are the water perimeters from there (usa/florida) not Tanganyika..

As stated as well dry live rock base is execellent as a buffer as well..

Good job..