sick betta

[Flower1982]

I went to turn Charlie's light off for the night and noticed he had some sought of growth or wound on his side.

Now i've had Charlie for 1 year and 8 months. He's in an established tank. The tank he's in has been set up for a little over 4 years now. I have noticed he has been slowing down/not as active as before. But other than not being as active as he use to he's been acting fine. He's been eating every morning.

When he started to be not as active I figured that it was just because of old age. Anyway, here is a picture of Charlie. Maybe you guys can tell me what is wrong and if there is something I can do for him. I just gravel-vacced and did a 40% water change on monday. He's in a 10 gallon tank with 6 pygmy corys and a few snails.

I did test the water tonight and here are the results:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrate: 15
Nitrite: 0
Ph: 6.5 I know this is low, I usually try to keep my tanks around 7.0. I did treat the tank with correct ph. But I didn't thinkg a slightly lower ph would cause a growth or wound.

I feel bad that I didn't notice this earlier. Maybe if I noticed it earlier I could have done something to prevent it from getting like this.

Here is a picture of Charlie:

 

[mel_20_20]

I'm so sorry that Charlie's sick. The area in question looks to me, especially in the first photo, that he's lost the layer of scales and skin down to the underlying tissues, is that what you can see?

Another thing, though I know Betta's scales are a little more prominent than many fish, it looks a bit to me that he's developed dropsy.

Notice the area I've circled in reflected image of Charlie in the pic below. Do his scales seem to be standing away from the body a little bit, like pineconing?



I wouldn't add anything to adjust the ph. Those may aggravate his condition right now, and in general are really discouraged by the fish gurus here on AC.

It's better to put a small piece of limestone rock in his tank, if you can find some, and if you keep having the problem with his ph falling.

You can also put a small amount of crushed coral in the filter. Either of those would ba a natural way to buffer his water.

I also used to put a cuttle bone in the tank, you know, like you buy to put in the parakeets cage. It can help to buffer the water, add calcium, and keep your ph pretty stable.

Do you have any decor in the tank on which he may have scraped himself? He could have gotten a scrape that is now infected. That's one of the possiblilties.

There are several things to try, depending on the answers to those questions.

Hope we can help.

 

[Flower1982]

It does look like Charlie has dropsey, I didn't notice that last night. There isn't really anything in his tank that he could have scraped himself on. There is a medium peice of rainbow rock in his tank, a peice of driftwood and some plants. The peice of rainbow rock I have in there doesn't have any sharp edges that he could have hurt himself on. From what I hear dropsey is hard to treat. What do you treat dropsey with? I do have medicine for dropsey but I've had it for over a year so I don't think it would be any good right now. I do have melafix, and aquarium salt. I have to go to work shortly so I can pick something up at work for dropsey for him.

 

[Jspigs]

Unfortunately true Dropsy is almost always fatal. When a fish gets Dropsy it means it's internal organs have failed.

There is no cure. Even though some medicine manufacturers claim to treat dropsy, medications can only sometimes treat some of the causes but even if you treat the cause if the fishes scales are pine-coned out then it is too late and the internal organs have failed.

I am very sorry to hear about your Betta.

 

[mel_20_20]

I'm sorry I didn't get to reply before you had to run out to work. I got a call from the dog groomer and had to go pick up my doggie.

EDIT: I agree that frank dropsy indicates utter failure of internal organs, be it kidney failure, liver failure, heart failure or all of the above.

However, if the edema is slight, he may be fighting an infection that has not, as yet, caused irreversible damage. Humans can have their kidney function impaired due to illness, and yet can recover. At some stage of the illness, there has to be impairment... which untreated will lead to irreversible damage and ultimately total failure.

If the dropsy is slight, I would try to save him. I alway opt for euthanasia, however, if I feel that there is suffering and not much hope. Or even if there's good reason to hope, but terrible suffering. One has to use their best judgement, in the best interest of the poor little fish.

Having said all that....

...here’s some information from two separate sources, I attached them because they both agree with a bath, several times a day, to help remove the fluid buildup in the fish with dropsy, as well as ongoing treatment in the tank.

If this is dropsy in Charlie, it's probably due to an infection, rather than a water quality issue, I'm thinking, due to the visible lesion/ulcer.

Dropsy is very dangerous, and most often extremely difficult to treat. I've only had this in one of my fish, a guppy. At the time I was a greenhorn noobie and didn't have AC (hadn't found it yet) and the lady at the lfs said to use Melafix. Well, Melafix is a good product but, in my experience, it is not enough.

I ultimately had to euthanise the guppy. Since then, I have done a lot of reading on the subject and have searched for input from others who have successfully and unsuccessfully treated dropsy.

Dropsy is a symptom of the damage that the internal organs; kidneys, heart, liver, or all of the above, have sustained due to an illness, infection, contaminant, or enviornmental factors; water quality issues that have damaged the organs.

Sometimes if you catch it early, depending on the underlying cause of dropsy, based on the experiences of others, it can be treated... at least in quite a few cases I've seen.

Sorry for the lengthy post, but I think this is what I'd do, if I had a fish that I'm certain has dropsy.

Here's one article. This guy has been in the business for a very long time and has a lot of experience, selling, breeding, keeping, and treating sick fish. His website is a good one
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http://www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2006/11/betta-with-dropsy.html

Dropsy is generally a symptom of something else, sometimes digestive, often kidney or liver related and can be loss of regulation of electrolytes (which is another reason for good trace element levels; please see these two articles: Calcium, Electrolytes, GH, KH, & more, Do Fish Drink; Proper Osmotic Function ).

Because of this, Dropsy can often be very difficult to treat, especially if caught in an advanced case in the fish. What the aquarist often observes is a “pinecone” swelling generally caused by fluid building inside the body cavity (often involving the Kidneys), for this reason, reducing this swelling is an important step in effecting a cure.
I have heard of Minocycline also being recommended for this (although it can be effective). I do not recommend this as Minocycline has been shown to cause serious damage to the kidneys, which is the last think you want to do to a fish suffering from Dropsy or even suspected of this malady.

I would also note that since Aeromonas bacteria is a common cause of Dropsy and since this bacterium is anaerobic, maintaining good circulation, aeration and overall good tank hygiene goes a long ways in treatment and even further for prevention (since Dropsy is difficult to treat and cure). Please more about optimum tank condition in the prevention section further into this article.

This said, besides treatment for a possible underlying infection, you want to take steps to remove the swelling.

Here are the steps I would take (these apply to ALL fish, not just Bettas):

*Change water! (25% should be fine)

*Perform a medicated bath with Methylene Blue and Kanacyn. To prepare this bath I use 1 teaspoon 2.303% solution per 5 gallons (double dose) in a bath of aquarium water from the tank the fish you wish to treat came from, I usually use about a ½ gallon of water, however you may use less. Measurement of the Methylene Blue does not need to be precise as this bath should be used for about 30 minutes (although do NOT overdose). Make sure you keep the water in a warm area, as in a cold room the water temperature can drop rapidly which would stress the fish. As to the Kanacyn, I generally have used twice to four times the recommended in tank strength in these baths of Kanamycin.

I STRONGLY recommend the use of salts in this bath as well at about double tank strength; 1-2 teaspoons sodium chloride (regular salt) per gallon and 1/8 to ¼ teaspoon Epsom salt per gallon of bath water.

Do NOT pour this water back into your display aquarium when finished. This can be performed twice per day.

For further information (more in depth) about fish baths, please read this article:
Fish Baths/Dips for supplemental (& even primary) treatment of Bacterial infections

*Add one tablespoon of regular salt (sodium chloride) per 5 gallons of tank water and ¼ to ½ teaspoon of Epsom salts per 5 gallons of tank water (I prefer the use of Epsom Salts in a bath over the main tank/bowl as Epsom salts can interfere with the correct mineral balance in aquarium water).
Add a Wonder Shell or similar product to add needed calcium. What these minerals will do is add electrolytes and change (and improve) the osmotic balance of the fish vs. the surrounding water to hopefully pull fluids thru the body thus reducing swelling. For more about electrolytes, please read this article: Calcium, Magnesium, and KH in Aquariums; How to maintain a Proper KH, why calcium and electrolytes are important.

*Treat tank water with Kanamycin (Kanaplex), or possibly with Neomycin or Nalidixic Acid.
Also consider feeding the infected fish with fish food soaked in Neomycin such as Aquarium Products Gel Tek Neomycin along with in tank treatment of Kanamycin (hospital tank is best). Other treatments of note are Minocycline (Maracyn II) and possibly Metronidazole (SeaChem makes an excellent pure Metronidazole).
Sometimes a “cocktail” approach with more than one medication is necessary for Dropsy, such as Kanacyn and Metronidazole together (and this still includes the baths!!)"

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In the above article, Kanacyn or Kanaplex and Furan 2 would be the combo in that last sentence, and I’ve used those two successfully.
Both articles I've attached describe baths, and antibiotic treatment.

Here's the other artlcle from a Betta website.

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http://www.bettafishcenter.com/Dropsy.shtml

Care & Treatment of Dropsy in Bettas & other fish
Dropsy is a very serious fish disease symptom and must be treated with urgency. This and other diseases that afflict fresh or salt water fish in your aquarium can, if neglected, kill the other species in the tank too. You may end up having to completely replace your aquarium! Periodic health checks for Dropsy as well as other serious fish diseases will always help in keeping your pets healthy and swimming for years of pleasure!
It is imperative to consult a fish disease expert to find the cause and to obtain the appropriate treatment for Dropsy in your Betta. On a lighter note, do not search for Fish Doctor on the internet as you may end up with information about "Doctor Fish", (the fish species) instead.






The steps given below will help you in dealing with a case of Dropsy in your fish tank:

1. Immediately change at least a quarter of the water in the aquarium. The water must be treated as mentioned in the step that follows and this water must not be re-used anywhere later on.
2. Place the diseased fish into a quarantine tank. You need to treat the rest of the 'unaffected' fish too - just in case.
3. Administer a prescribed antibiotic to arrest growth of the infection. Suitable medicines are Maracyn, Kanacyn, Neomycin, or tetracycline drugs and anti fungicides for treating the tank water etc.
4. A medicated bath must be given to the fish at least two times a day with methylene blue, salt, Epsom salt, and electrolyte balancing salts to ensure removal of fluids from the fish and to keep electrolytes in balance. The proportion of medicines in this bath is clearly mentioned on the labels and one can still confirm the procedure either with the pet shop or the vast library base on the Internet.

In conclusion, react at the very first signs of Dropsy in your Betta. Proper care and treatment of the infection will revive your Betta and other affected fish, allowing you to restore your aquarium to its original state. If you have just started keeping Betta fish it would be advisable to study their traits and health precautions so that you immediately recognize signs of upsets when these occur.

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I hope this helps. In both of these articles, the use of baths as well as treating in the tank are recommended. If I encounter dropsy again, this is the regimen I will try.

There may be other advice from Betta keepers here on AC, or other members of our forum that disagree and have some other regimen that they've had personal success with, and if so I welcome that... and defer to greater experience and greater knowledge.

I sincerely hope Charlie will feel better soon.

 

[mel_20_20]

I added a proviso to my post above, in the first few paragraphs, and I'm adding one here.

Even if successfully treated for dropsy, there may be, and usually will be, some level of impairment that will shorten the life of the fish.

That being said, several that I've spoken to were happy to have added a year or two, to a fishie friend.

 

[Flower1982]

Unfornately the pet store where I work doesn't sell much fish medicine. I may have to euthanize Charlie to end his suffering.

Thanks so much for the information mel_20_20. I really appreciate it.
You said you had to pick your dog up from the groomers. What kind of dog do you have?