Sick White Clouds

[gyp5y5]

Hi all, hoping someone may be able to enlighten me. I purchased four White Cloud Mountain Minnows nearly 2 weeks ago. All was fine until last Wednesday evening one of them looked as though it couldn't close it's mouth - it had it permanently open. Within half an hour it was floating about, sometimes upside down, in the water and then it would start swimming normally again. It kept on doing this, floating head down/up, tip over and then float about the tank until an hour later it just drifted to the bottom of the tank and died. No other marks on the fish.

All the other fish in the tank (2 Honey Gouramis, 2 Twin-tailed Guppies, 2 male Guppies and the 3 remaining Minnows) all seemed fine until today. We had noticed that the small Minnow was hanging around above the heater for the past few days but didn't put it down to anything. Noticed a couple of hours ago that it's lost it's balance and is sometimes floating about the tank like the other did, other times it wedges itself under leaves and at the base of plants. It's mouth is closed, unlike the one that died last week. Have done a 30% water change because of quite high nitrate reading last night and used a de-chlorinator.

Last nights readings are: Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 40ppm (was 20 the evening before). The tank is 18" x 13" x 15".

Any advice?

 

[J double R]

you didnt notice anything that looked like was blocking its mouth? cottonmouth can cause their mouths to have a permanent opening like you said.. but that's just a guess.

 

[gyp5y5]

Couldn't see any marks on it at all. tried to have a look in it's mouth after it died but could see nothing. was advised that it could have been mouth rot/fungus.

This little Minnow that is sick today is still with us but I'd love to be able to do something to help it.

 

[ct-death]

Well, first welcome to AC

As for the White Clouds, when you got them were you just finishing a cycle? What's the temp of your tank? Are these Clouds really small, like under 1/2"? When you feed, do you see them eatting?

 

[gyp5y5]

Hi there, thanks for the welcome.

Tank had finished its cycle and was previously home to fishies that have now moved to a larger tank. Temperature is 77 degrees F / 25 degrees C . The Minnow which died last week was approximately 1 inch long, the one that is poorly now is between 1/2 and 3/4 inch long. Always fed well and did eat a little this morning but not as much as usual.

 

[ct-death]

I asked about the size b/c LFSs are notoriously selling very young juvy (almost fry stage) fish to people, especially the popular tetras (neons, clouds, etc.). At this stage they are extremely susceptable to stress whether it be from a newly cycled tank or simply from introduction to a new tank, and of course to any illnesses floating around... This can menifest in hours or up to a 3 or so days after (some diseases can lay dormant for a month or more).

Getting back to the issue, generally a swimming/floating problem is a sign of severe stress (obviously). The eatting question is an attempt to help me eliminate the possability of certain diseases (which could easily still be the case such as bacterial) vs. another possability such as water changes/shifts.

Sudden and/or large changes in the water during acclimation or WCs (i.e. Temp, pH, forgetting to use a de-chlorinator, etc.) can put the fish under a lot of stress or even shock. They may recover as most do, or they may develop an inbalance internally leading to swimming disorders...(again young juvys are more susceptable to change)

So, leading down this path, how did you acclimate the Clouds to the tank at introduction? and whether or not this phenomina occured around recent WCs for the latest Cloud that developed this behavior?

It could be as simple as just getting poor fish stock...that's certainly not new...

I'm really searching for what's different from when they were (seemingly) healthy...acclimation, new introductions/removals, change in your water source (should test the tap water), big tank cleanings, recent treatments, etc...

EDIT: My posts are starting to blur on me ...

 

[gyp5y5]

Thanks for the reply. When I get my fish I always float the bag in the tank for 20 minutes before releasing them, to get the temperatures the same. I used to then put a little bit of tank water in the bag and leave for another 5/10 minutes before releasing but was advised that this could stress out the fish. I then leave the light off and don't feed for 1-2 hours. A small 10-15% water change was done the following Wednesday evening because of the first sick White Cloud and I always use a dechlorinater.

No meds were used in that tank until yesterday evening when I put some Revitalising Tonic in (put recommended dose in). No new introductions/removals in that tank.

The little White Cloud that died today/last night has been hanging around above the heater for the last day or two but we didn't think much of it. Still came out to feed and then went back. Could see no signs of bullying.

Flummoxed!

 

[magakitty]

When we had the columnaris outbreak in our tank, only some of the fish had outward signs of it. Some looked perfectly normal when they died, and the rest had various symptoms of the bacterial infection. Columnaris (mouth fungus) can be, in some strains, very virulent, and kill very quickly. The worst strains of it will wipeout an entire tank in 24-48 hours. Other strains can take days, and not affect all of your fish. I inadvertantly introduced it to my tank when I added two new fish from PetSmart. No more fish from petsmart.

i love our "mom and pop" LFS here. They ask alot of questions about your set up. They know our tanks quite well, and they remember what fish we have and what we added last and when we added fish last. Last night they refused to sell my hubby fish (about a $50 loss to them) because his tank has just finished cycling and he added 6 fish 3 days ago. They told him it is too soon to increase the bio-load that much. They also have steered us towards less expensive options on tank accessories when a lesser expensive item would work. They even remember how much rock he has bought and have told him what fish he can have with the amount of rock he has. They told him come back on Saturday, with the parameters and he could probably add fish then. They are really cool.

 

[ralpf]

Nice to see a couple of LFS'S that actually treat you as an individual, and take pride in their store. Anyways when I bought my 4 White clouds for my unheated filterless tank, everything was fine for a couple of days and then without warning one died. No signs of any type of disease, so I bought another and everything is fine again! Colours are vibrant and they have a healthy appetite! So keep an eye on the others and if any signs of disease crop up, quarantine!