Students Kept Under Surveillance
- Thread starter 125gJoe
- Start date
Dangerdoll
Global Moderator
Fist off, we're not talking about tagging adults leaving home, that's a completely different issue. Don't get "slippery slopey" on me either, that's a falacy. Besides, this is not GPS, this is a short range radio signal, anyone who's ever played with cheap walkie talkies can guess just how far they can track you, not very far.
There really isn't a drawback to this. It's less invasive than cameras because, unlike cameras, they can't actually see you. On the other hand, it's a much more effective tracking tool because it doesn't rely on visual monitoring, cameras are easy to avoid, especially if there are a few hundred other people to keep an eye on.
This isn't an issue of privacy, it's an issue of hypocrisy and people looking for something to whine about. How does the school knowing whether or not you're there, where you should be, infringe on your privacy? It's not going to prevent someone skipping for the very reason that Harlock mentioned, but it could very well prevent a kidnapping, or at least give earlier notice of one.
Flying fish touched on it, but the worst part is that if these complaining parents manage to get some form of court ruling banning them, they would be the very first to jump up and complain about why the school didn't have better preventative measures if their or any child was kidnapped.
I know exactly what kind of parents these are :mad2 , I've known their children. These are the parents who will take their child's side no matter what. If their kid gets kicked out of school for bullying, drugs, cutting class, etc. they will be in the principal's office the next day complaining that "the teacher picks on him", "it's not him, it's his friends", "what do you have against my son/daughter?". They're lazy parents who don't really want their kid to learn and think that discipline is for other kids.
The bottom line is that if more parents supported their public schools, there wouldn't be a need for these, or cameras, or drug dogs, or metal detectors. But that's not the case. I went to a school that needed all of the above, but didn't have them. We did have security guards though.
Tomm10 said it best, you don't have privacy rights at school. While you're there, your butt is theirs.
Now, I'm done ranting, I think there's probably something worthwhile in there. But to summarize, there is some good that can come of these. No one has yet to mention a potential drawback, other than some vague reference to "privacy". :huh:
There really isn't a drawback to this. It's less invasive than cameras because, unlike cameras, they can't actually see you. On the other hand, it's a much more effective tracking tool because it doesn't rely on visual monitoring, cameras are easy to avoid, especially if there are a few hundred other people to keep an eye on.
This isn't an issue of privacy, it's an issue of hypocrisy and people looking for something to whine about. How does the school knowing whether or not you're there, where you should be, infringe on your privacy? It's not going to prevent someone skipping for the very reason that Harlock mentioned, but it could very well prevent a kidnapping, or at least give earlier notice of one.
Flying fish touched on it, but the worst part is that if these complaining parents manage to get some form of court ruling banning them, they would be the very first to jump up and complain about why the school didn't have better preventative measures if their or any child was kidnapped.
I know exactly what kind of parents these are :mad2 , I've known their children. These are the parents who will take their child's side no matter what. If their kid gets kicked out of school for bullying, drugs, cutting class, etc. they will be in the principal's office the next day complaining that "the teacher picks on him", "it's not him, it's his friends", "what do you have against my son/daughter?". They're lazy parents who don't really want their kid to learn and think that discipline is for other kids.
The bottom line is that if more parents supported their public schools, there wouldn't be a need for these, or cameras, or drug dogs, or metal detectors. But that's not the case. I went to a school that needed all of the above, but didn't have them. We did have security guards though.
Tomm10 said it best, you don't have privacy rights at school. While you're there, your butt is theirs.
Now, I'm done ranting, I think there's probably something worthwhile in there. But to summarize, there is some good that can come of these. No one has yet to mention a potential drawback, other than some vague reference to "privacy". :huh:
Injecting the sensor under the skin would eliminate the exchanging tag problem!! :idea2:
I'm not in favor of this either. My feeling is let the pain in the butt, disruptive, class cutting kids leave. The world needs ditch diggers and minimum wage earners. Let them come back and get a GED if and when they realize the importance of an educaton. That will allow the teachers to focus on the already overcrowded classrooms of kids that want to learn. (did I just say that?? Man I'm harsh today!!)
If parents make their kids first priority and raise them with some dicipline and a work ethic, there wouldn't be an issue like this :rant:
I'm not in favor of this either. My feeling is let the pain in the butt, disruptive, class cutting kids leave. The world needs ditch diggers and minimum wage earners. Let them come back and get a GED if and when they realize the importance of an educaton. That will allow the teachers to focus on the already overcrowded classrooms of kids that want to learn. (did I just say that?? Man I'm harsh today!!)
If parents make their kids first priority and raise them with some dicipline and a work ethic, there wouldn't be an issue like this :rant:
Sorry, cameras invade my privacy a lot more than a harmless tag would. A camera is invasive by nature. It shows you. The fact that animals are tagged has nothing to do with this exchange of ideas, Joe. It's a strawman. No one is comparing kid to animals in this. We are not out to study their migration patterns, mating behaviors, or their food source. We already know all those: migration to the coolest most popular kids, mating is too early for parental tastes, and food source is anywhere they sell salty snacks.125gJoe said:
This school district is simply trying to get a handle on students where they should already be. I guess my main emphasis is thus: if the kids are doing what they are supposed to be doing, why are they worried? Also, Hapychem, great post. My wife is a teacher and I hear stories all the time. We've even had parents call our house asking why their "darling" child failed and the exchange usually goes something like this. I only need the one side to know what's going on. This would be my wife speaking."Yes. Well, she failed because she didn't turn in any of her work, neglected to participate in class and only managed to pass 2 quizes and one test this six weeks. (pause while mom says she didn't know) Didn't you get the progress report in the third week explaining why she had a failing grade then? I have it her, let's see, yes, it was signed by you and on it is a list of assignments your dauhgter was missing and could have made up.(pause again) I am aware of that Ms. so-and-so. I do make allowances for children in extracuricular activites and I provide make-up exams as well as allow homework to be turned in as late as the day grades are due to the office. I also spend an extra hour and fifteen minutes everyday after school to tutor students who need help as well as administer make-up assignments, quizzes and exams. Your daughter is aware of this and even told me several times she would come in to make up her work, but never appeared in my classroom after that to do so. (another pause) I will not round up your daughter six-week grade, Ms. so-and-so. No ma-am, it was not a 68, it was a 63, and I would only round up a 69.5 or greater to a 70 for a pass. You're daughter was even offered extra credit assignments such as watching a movie dubbed or subtitled in french and getting you to sign a note saying she had done so, but she never brought me anything saying she had even done that.(another pause ater my wife doesn't say a word, simply hangs up and then turning to me says) Huh, she hung up on me."
Parents are worse than the students. They refuse to believe that their 15-18 year old students are responsible for any of their own actions and try and bail them out of trouble and blame everything else except their "precious little baby" when truly, the responsibilty is indeed that child's. If they don't learn it by the time they are 18, they may never learn. I have a sister-in-law and a few cousins that prove that point marvelously.
Still, the fact remains, as a parent with one child in public school and another who will be when she is of age, as the spouse of a teacher, I have no problems whatsoever with students having a short range id badge that showed where they were on campus. It isn't nearly as invasive as cameras and it could help deter students leaving campus for unsupervised jaunts that likely even their parents wouldn't want them on. Excepting, those aprents, of course who would defend their child at any cost regardless of wether what s/he did was wrong.
Happy, something I've been hearing a lot about lately is that workers are being tagged by their employers. Not only the company vehicles they drive or if they show up at work, but what they are doing in their homes on their own personal time. It is happening and that's dam frightening!
Lila
Lila
Lila,
If they tag me, the guy watching the GPS monitor will die of bordom
I agree, it's getting crazy. I would never work for a company that felt the need to monitor my movements. Maybe if I was transporting high explosives or gasoline trucks, but that's it!!
My take on the camera VS GPS tag.........
Once you're out of range of the camera you're free. The GPS system will follow you anywhere if you can't remove it. I say keep the cameras in the schools for security reasons. As I mentioned above, let the ones who want to leave, LEAVE!!! Don't let the door hit you on the A$$ on the way out!!!!!
If they tag me, the guy watching the GPS monitor will die of bordom
I agree, it's getting crazy. I would never work for a company that felt the need to monitor my movements. Maybe if I was transporting high explosives or gasoline trucks, but that's it!!My take on the camera VS GPS tag.........
Once you're out of range of the camera you're free. The GPS system will follow you anywhere if you can't remove it. I say keep the cameras in the schools for security reasons. As I mentioned above, let the ones who want to leave, LEAVE!!! Don't let the door hit you on the A$$ on the way out!!!!!
FL Knifemaker said:Lila,
Once you're out of range of the camera you're free. The GPS system will follow you anywhere if you can't remove it. I say keep the cameras in the schools for security reasons. As I mentioned above, let the ones who want to leave, LEAVE!!! Don't let the door hit you on the A$$ on the way out!!!!!
Well, its a radio tag not a GPS so the range is significantly smaller but the real issue is that the same parents who complain about the tag will sue the school when little Suzie gets kidnapped/ODs/Gets pregnant/Alcohol poisoning/knocks over a liquor store when she snuck out of school during study hall. I see this as the schools covering their butt, a move that society has forced them to make.
Lila, you mentioned businesses forcing employees to be tracked off of work hours? I have never heard of this and find it a hard one to swallow. Do you know of any? I know there was a big dust up last winter in MA over the state trying to force snow plow drivers (including provate contrators) to use GPS transmitters so they could be located during a shift. That makes sense to me. You on work time so work should be able to make sure you're working and not sleeping in a parking lot or watching tv in a bar. But to say you need to take the tracker home is clearly a violation of privacy.
Tom,
You made several good points. I guess my position should be, once you get caught leaving school you are DONE, no comming back! My high school had a one chance policy. Quite a few seniors graduated AFTER summer school
You made several good points. I guess my position should be, once you get caught leaving school you are DONE, no comming back! My high school had a one chance policy. Quite a few seniors graduated AFTER summer school
