stupid florida laws rant

monkey_toes

"Maybe it's a hybrid"
Feb 7, 2006
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Southwest Florida
WARNING: OPINIONS EXPRESSED

Who are these dim bulbs in charge of deciding what can and cannot be kept by Florida aquarists? Some of their decisions seem to be based on opinion or misinformation, with apparently intentional disregard for facts. A few of their best decisions:

Freshwater stingrays: Must have a special permit from the director of the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWC) to possess any of the family Potamotrygonidae (Potamotrygon spp., Paratrygon spp. and Plesiotrygon spp.). I'm not a big fan of exotics moving into natural waters, but why this family only? What about Asian and African species? What about the fact that there are already native freshwater stingrays in the St. Johns river system? I can find no reported injuries from the St. Johns population. What about the fact that Florida's salt and brackish waters are loaded with bazillions of stingrays? Who's going to turn $100 fish loose, anyway?

Piranhas: Subfamily Serrasalminae (including Serrasalmus spp., Pygocentrus spp., Pygopristis spp., Rooseveltiella spp.) banned entirely, due to human safety concerns. Yeah, because everyone who swims or bathes in the Amazon gets stripped down to a skeleton in 30 seconds. Piranha bites are rare and deaths almost unknown, besides which there are only a couple species that have been found guilty of ANY harm to humans. OK, fine, make the potentially dangerous species illegal, but to throw a blanket on all of them is absurd.

Walking catfish: The entire Clariid family is banned, except Clarias batrachus, which is already established — and RESTRICTED, due to concerns it could expand its range. Look, I've seen walking catfish hundreds of yards from any water during heavy rains. Anywhere that is suitable habitat, THEY'LL WALK THERE. It makes sense to ban the species that aren't already here, but the one that's been established for 30+ years? Stupid.

Tilapias (Sarotherodon spp., Oreochromis spp., Tilapia spp.): All prohibited except four species that are already established, which are restricted. Every species, including two other established species. Over 100 species — despite their varied habitat requirements, dietary needs, etc. This is simple laziness on the part of the state. How does the incredible reproductive capacity of O. aureus justify the banning of, say, Tilapia buttikoferi? Did anyone research this in any way? I doubt it — it's a lot easier to just say "no."

Bony-tongued fishes: Family Osteoglossidae (including Arapaima gigas, Scleropages formosus, Osteoglossum ferreirai, Heterotis niloticus). All species except O. bicirrhosum are restricted. Survey: Who thinks pirarucu could actually become established in Florida? And why the exempt one species of arowana but make me jump through flaming hoops to acquire another? FWC sez: "Potential Concerns - All bony tongue fishes, family Osteoglossidae* are restricted, except arowana (Osteoglossum bicirrhosum) is exempted, due to their inability to survive temperatures below 58 degrees Fahrenheit." Oh, now it makes sense. It's because those other tropical species adapt well to cold. Silly me.

Restrictions and prohibitions of some species are necessary, and I understand that. I would hate to see trahira or any additional species of snakehead (we've already got one) become established like so many other exotics have. I also understand the need to prevent uneducated buyers from purchasing fish they will probably later release because it's too big or expensive to feed. I just think facts should be used when writing the law, not impressions from B-movies or old adventure novels. As a Libertarian at heart, I don't feel morally obligated to obey a law that is based on stupidity, ignorance or laziness. Potential owners of any living animal need education, and I think both the state and the pet industry have failed miserably in that regard. Knowledge, not laws, will be the key to preventing the spread of exotics.
 
Do you really think any of the politicians making those restrictions have aquariums that they care for :duh:
obviously not ... they just dont understand :p:
but still if your a politician you've got to be concerned about your area's wildlife situation b/c you never know when some idiot will put a $100 fish somewhere other than its own environment. Its kidn of mandatory. Unfortunately.
 
Its not so much damage to people that concern them, but damage to ecosystems. In Florida already, some 30% of the wildlife is introduced, causing untold, irreperable damage to native species...and as far as Arapaima surviving there...clown knives, African bichirs, Madagascan geckos, Burmese pythons, African Nile monitors, etc all have quite well, so why not Arapaima?
 
It because the same type of people who get these type of fish, will tire of them and dump them into the local rivers and waterways. This is the reason why Florida has so many exotics in the state. I think its a good law.
The everglades has a problem with Burmese Pythons. Yes there are responsible people who have exotic pets but for every 10 there is atleast 2 who are not. Also complaining here doesnt do any good. If you want to have exotic pets, then you must then meet with your State Representatives and talk to them. Get a group of people to join up with you and do discussions. Change the politicians minds. But if you have to have a special license for exotic animals, is that a really that big of a problem?? seriously, this would stop the casual buyer and only the most serious of Keepers would buy them.
 
i agree, i think the licensing would make it so only those who have done research, and made the difficult decision to get involved with the care of these animals, would get the priviledge of getting them...i think some should not be banned outright if someone had the skill and dedication to care for them, but even then you could probably get a license or scientific grant if you cared to try...
 
I have no problems with thier laws, it's to protect the local ecosystems, the reasons those fish are'nt naturally there is because they could'nt get thier, and thats how most of the enviroment should have stayed, the way nature intended it. Completly outlawing the species, I have a problem with, but banning them becuase of the idiots and making the more determined aquarists get a permit to have them is nothing you should be mad about, unless, you hate the enviroment.
 
Toirtis said:
Its not so much damage to people that concern them, but damage to ecosystems. In Florida already, some 30% of the wildlife is introduced, causing untold, irreperable damage to native species...and as far as Arapaima surviving there...clown knives, African bichirs, Madagascan geckos, Burmese pythons, African Nile monitors, etc all have quite well, so why not Arapaima?
If the well-being of the environment were the root of their concern, the sensible solution would be to prevent importation of any species which could potentially reproduce in Florida's environment. There's no evidence that freshwater stingrays would have a more (or less) harmful impact on native species than, for example, pictus catfish. The difference is in the perceived negative impact on tourism dollars an established stingray population would cause. I'm well aware of the exotic wildlife problem — all the native treefrogs and anoles in my town are gone, replaced by Caribbean imports. What I'm saying is the animals they've chosen to outlaw have been selected based on emotional criteria rather than factual.
 
dorkfish said:
making the more determined aquarists get a permit to have them is nothing you should be mad about, unless, you hate the enviroment.
There is no clear set of requirements for the granting of said permit. It's at the discretion of the director of the FWC. A well-regulated permitting procedure would be wonderful to ensure animals would go into only the right hands, but with the current system you just get stonewalled.
 
to my understanding, piranah's were banned because people were introducing them to lakes and such and they can actually live in the environment.

>.> Might want to check it out but I heard people were getting bitten.

I had a red piranah who bit me once while I was adjusting a silk plant. =( It hurt a lot and I didn't put my hand in the aquarium after that. Imagine a really deep paper cut. It was almost surgical... Gah
 
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