subwassertang frustration!

bazil323

AC Members
May 1, 2008
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Wisconsin
:swear: Okay, I am not sure if it is something I'm doing wrong or just bad stock from a seller on Aquabid. I've ordered subwassertang twice from this guy, and both times there was some confusion about the order. The first time the order and shipping went fine, but then a couple weeks later, he emailed me threatening to leave negative feedback if I would not pay him. I am anal about checking with the seller to make sure that I have the right Paypal address and correct amount to send. I knew that I had sent it, and it was the right address and amount. I checked Paypal and found the payment, but when I was writing the reply email I put in the wrong amount from Paypal because I was looking at the wrong line in the transaction register. That was worked out, and we finally agreed that it was fine and a mixup because I hadn't figured out how to change my maiden name on my Paypal account to my married name, so he thought that there were 2 orders. Easy mixup, no big deal and we left on good terms. However, I just had a bad feeling about someone who would not double check the orders and email addresses of payments and such. Everyone else I have dealt with, even people who don't sell often, were able to figure it out.

The next time, he took a couple weeks after I accidentally bought from him again (his Aquabid username is not the same as his email address name, so I didn't make the connection) before he sent an email asking if he still owed me subwassertang. I said yes, that I had done 2 orders over a month apart, and the second one had not been received. He replied saying he must have confused the two and would send it out. He never sent tracking numbers for either one. If I rember correctly, the first order was sent in a baggie in a regular paper envelope. The envelope was soaked and ripped. I was lucky that it got to me. I don't remember for sure if it was him or not, so I can't really take it as a negative against him. Anyway, the second time, it was sent in a fish baggie in a PO box, but there was no packing around it so that it was bouncing around and may have gotten beaten up and bruised during shipping. Plus, there was a ton of duckweed in it. I personally don't care one way or the other, but there was no mention that there may be duckweed in it on the auction description nor was there any duckweed in the picture of it. I thought that I should let future buyers have a heads up to be aware of it. Some people hate duckweed with a vengeance and would be really angry about it, so they should know. It was more that he did not say that there could be duckweed mixed in, really, that bugged me.

When I left neutral feedback saying the plant was great but the shipping was slow and duckweed was mixed in, he sent a very angry email to me demanding that I never order from him again. Well, there's no trouble there. I've memorized both names he goes by and will not make the mistake again. I have to admit that both times it could have been an easy mistake, but his angry email that was an overreaction just killed his chances of him ever getting business from me again. I have never, ever had such a foul transaction. I do a lot of buying on Aquabid and here, almost exclusively for my plant aquisitions, and I have never had anyone get so inflammatory or take so long to ship or have such glaring mixups. Uhh, I'm getting worked up about it.

Anyway, so the subwassertang looked nice at first. Both times I had to put it in my 20g long tank at home until I could bring it to work. The first time it was a couple weeks, the second a day. The first time I had waited until I had the substrate to set up my work tank. I tied it to a rock, but I let it get pretty dry when doing so and tied it in a lump which may have made the middle rot. Needless to say, that whole chunk died and rotted. There were a few pieces left in the 20g long that seem to be doing great and expanding. I think that that time it was totally my fault that the chunk I brought to work died.

Plus, there were a few other things that I messed up with this first planted-only tank that I have done. I accidentally left the light on all weekend once, and the bulb that I was using at the time had an unknown K rating. I have since changed it to a 6500K rated bulb. It is a 27w desk lamp with the compact flourescent bulb type that looks like 4 tubes side by side. I use Jungle Labs Plant Care Solution Water Conditioner tabs to dechlor the city water. I have a reptile filter for water movement, and the substrate is Flourite Black Sand. I had been dosing Yamato Green-N liquid ferts, but I was dosing too much and too often at that time. I have since dosed it correctly but only once every other week instead of the once or twice a week since there was so much algae from the mistakes of before. Temp is about 80F. I dose Excel daily, about twice the dose to help out the HC that I have and combat the algae. Normal dose should be 5 drops to make 0.25 mls. I have been dosing about 10 drops daily.

The second order sat in the 20g long overnight. I took most of it to work the next morning. That was last Tuesday. Today (Monday) it is mostly green-brown. I did not tie it to anything this time, and I let it drift to where it wanted. It ended up hanging off my Ludwigia glandulosa and Windelov fern. So, it's pretty much right under the middle of the light. Everything else had been growing fine, and the algae was pretty much under control. I had brought in a nerite snail to clean off the acrylic and plants since it was too hard to get everything off the leaves. It was looking beautiful, and there was no new growth of algae. There were a few pieces of the subwassertang left in the 20g long again, but I cannot tell which is from the first order and which from the second.

When I left Thursday at 1:00, everything looked fine. I was gone Thursday afternoon until this morning (Monday). So, I did not dose Excel like normal on Friday, but the weekend was the same as ever. I did dose the Yamato Green-N on Wednesday though. It had not been dosed for 2 weeks. Today, like I said, it looks like it is dying just like the first order of subwassertang. Also, there is blue-green slime algae on the Windelov fern and the sand and some on the crypts. The nerite is still alive and doing his job, but the only changes that would prompt an algae bloom are the subwassertang, dosing Yamato that week, and not dosing Excel on Friday. Otherwise, it was all the same. I can't help but wonder if he's selling bad product. Then again, it was only when I introduced it to the 2.5g at work that it died. The stuff in the 20g long seems to be doing fine. Is it too much light, too much ferts, what?!? :confused:

I guess there are too many factors to consider, but I just had to rant about it. I can't believe that it is dying again! It is dying in the same timeframe of 1 week from introduction to the tank. I am so frustrated. I'm tempted to just leave the subwassertang out of the 2.5g at work and try something else.

To sum up:
The subwassertang is dying within 1 week of introduction to a 2.5 gallon tank at work. There is 27w of 6500K compact flourescent light over the tank (previously it was 27w of unknown K rating flouresent light). The temp is about 80F. There is water movement. The substrate is 2.5-3 inches of Flourite Black Sand. I use Jungle Labs Plant Care Solutions Water Conditioner tabs to dechlor the water that I add (1/4 tab for about 48 ounces every week). So far, I have only changed the water once in the 2-1/2 months it has been running (after I added the nerite but about 1 week before the second order of subwassertang). There are 2 crypt wendtii bronze, a Windelov fern, 2 pieces of HC, 2 Echinodorus bleheri "compacta", 2 Ludwigia glandulosa, and the subwassertang. Everything is doing great except the subwassertang.
 
A couple things. I've suspect that Subwassertang hates excel. I was spot treating mine for some hair algae that cropped up on it, and it melted back severely after the excel treatment. I also spot treated with H202 the week previous to that, though, so it's possible that it was the H202 not the excel. But I bet it was both. I believe that all nonvascular plants are at least somewhat sensitive to excel and H202. Subwassertang is believed to be a fern gametophyte, though, so maybe some testing is necessary.

After the melting, I moved what was left (I lost about a quarter of it) to a 2.5 gallon tank under a 20+- watt screw-in incandescent light. It's very shaded by floating plants and windelov. I dose nothing. Substrate is flourite black, and Im running a Red Sea nano HOB filter. So our setups are similar. I dechlorinate using Prime, but I doubt dechlorinator has an impact. What is your pH and hardness? Mine is growing in very soft very acidic (6.0 pH) water and has probably doubled in size in the last couple months. Water varies dramatically from the mid 70s to the mid 80s depending on how hot my apartment is.

While this doesnt solve your problem, it at least gives you some insight into the conditions I'm growing it under. Hopefully that helps.

Worse comes to worst, forget the Subwassertang and try pelia, which has a similar appeal.
 
Good point. That would make sense since the subwassertang at home is doing fine with no Excel or any ferts other than the Eco Complete, laterite, and a few root tabs I put in a couple months ago. The subwassertang there also is fairly shaded and only under 1.8 wpg anyway.

The subwassertang at work does have Excel and is dying out. I suspect that the subwassertang dying and rotting combined with the dosing of Yamato ferts combined to get the algae bloom over the weekend.

I have no idea what the pH or hardness are at work. I know that the water in this area does run fairly hard with lots of iron. Also, the pH at home runs about 7 even. Since I'm only 30 miles from work, I suspect it's similar. I guess I should start checking that.

Thanks for the tips, and I'll look into the pelia instead for the tank that I'm having trouble with.
 
I have to agree with FrostyNYC. Subwassertang HATES Excel. I have had it in many of my tanks and it has never survived in any tanks that i use excel in. Good Luck!!
 
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