Switching Water Conditioner Brands

Hmmmmm.. here's something interesting on the Seachem Safe's MSDS...

http://www.seachem.com/support/MSDS/Safe.doc.pdf PDF FILE, under:

Section V: Reactivitity Data...

Hazardous Decomposition or Byproducts - Formaldehyde, sulfur dioxide
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While the chemicals in it might be proprietary, they weren't able to get by the Decomp or Byproducts part of the MSDS disclosure. I'm not sure how these decomp or byproducts affect our fish and at what level or percentages these chemicals are used but at least it's something good to know. I've never seen these chemicals listed as Hazardous byproducts on other dechlor product's MSDS sheets. Even Prime's MSDS doesnt' list these hazardous byproducts but Seachem says that Safe is the exact same chemicals as Prime except not mixed with water yet so I'm not sure where the breakdown or difference comes into play.

Seachem's site doesn't say how much the Safe treats but I found this MarineDepot page that says 10gm treats 400 gallons and a 50gm bottle (1.8oz) sold for around $5.00 (discontinued now). So that means a 50gm bottle for around $5.00 would treat 2,000 gallons. On another site, not known to me so I'm not putting the URL, I saw a 250gm bottle (8.8oz) for around $10.00 so that treats around 10,000 gallons so that is a better deal than the liquid version, Prime.... but API's Tap Water Conditioner (just a dechlor and heavy metal treatment) treats up to 9,400 gallons with a 16 oz. bottle for around $5.00 to $6.00 so it's still a better deal for just a dechlor product but once again, for folks stuck with cycling with fish or other ammonia issues, then Prime or Safe are both good products to help folks through those crisis'.
 
A 2 liter of prime will cost you about $44.00 and treats 20,000 gallons.

A 1 kg (2.2bs) of SAFE will cost you $28.00 and treats 200,000 gallons.
 
nc0gnet0 said:
This is a huge overstatement if there ever was one, I am very familuar with what doc johnson did say about it. The conclusion was it was useless for anything but supercial scrapes/cuts/ etc. And the best thing for those is clean water and plenty of it. But api still markets it as anti fungal and anti bacterial...bah...getting off subject.

At any rate to say Doc Johnson gave it a thumbs up is a bit of a over-exageration......I am sensing a pattern......
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Your assertions are a HUGE exageration as well. I'm not finding the article any longer since KoiVet has changed so much and my old link doesn't work but I specifically remember seeing a fish with a BAD ulcerated injury that Doc Johnson tested the product on and said it definitely helped.

But... we could also say that we shouldn't trust Doc Johnson regardless of our recollection of the article, if we wan't to look at semantics, since Doc Johnson sells so-called "Aquarium Salt" in his product line for about TEN TIMES more than what plain salt actually sells for.

Once again... lots of reputable companies end up selling something that is overpriced or may not be needed in their product lines in order to compete with what other companies are doing.
 
http://www.koivet.com/a_melaleuca_tea_tree_oil_koi_wounds_healing.html



Melafix is a patented 1% mixture of CAS Melaleuca (Tea Tree Oil) which is used to enhance healing in fish.
Melafix is promoted to have antibacterial properties but our research has shown this is not the case. We treated an inhabited system for five consecutive days and then ran CFU (colony forming unit) tests on the water and found a typical population of Aeromonas hydrophila/caviae, and Citrobacter freundii, as well as Serratia spp.
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Remember your the one that brought up Dr Johnson in the first place, as a reputable source, not me. So if you want to discredit him here:
But... we could also say that we shouldn't trust Doc Johnson regardless of our recollection of the article, if we wan't to look at semantics, since Doc Johnson sells so-called "Aquarium Salt" in his product line for about TEN TIMES more than what plain salt actually sells for.
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more power to you..........


I never said melafix didn't have it uses, just that as it is marketed it is complete BS. It's like selling aspirin as a cancer cure and defending it by saying "Well, it cures a headache"!
 
nc0gnet0 said:
A 2 liter of prime will cost you about $44.00 and treats 20,000 gallons.

A 1 kg (2.2bs) of SAFE will cost you $28.00 and treats 200,000 gallons.
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I don't really look at the prices of BULK sizes of products since 90%+ of hobbyists would NEVER need that volume of product. You would need a LOT of tanks and ponds going through cycling issues to need that much Prime or Safe.

For someone with 100G of tanks, (meaning 1,300 gallons of water changed each year with a weekly 25% PWC), a 2 liter bottle of prime would last them around 15 years. They would die long before using a kilo of Safe... unless they re-packaged it as coke and sold it to their druggie neighbor.. who would then die when snorting it and would never ask for a refund. LOL
 
nc0gnet0 said:
http://www.koivet.com/a_melaleuca_tea_tree_oil_koi_wounds_healing.html

Remember your the one that brought up Dr Johnson in the first place, as a reputable source, not me. So if you want to discredit him here:


more power to you..........
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Thanks for finding the link. Not sure why Google didn't find it.

Doc Johnson also says this..

It's been years since this was written up, and field experiences have revealed the following:

Melafix remains effective in many of the "garden variety" superficial bacterial ulcers and sores wherein the fish are not "sick" but have scuffs and scrapes in the skin....

.... Koi With Wounds in Our Testing - We treated daily, using NO OTHER ADJUVANTS or other therapies. The wound was never dressed topically and the fish was never injected. No water changes were done. No SALT was applied or present in test tank water. Within three days, healing was impressive....

...I will probably add the recommendation of MelaFix to all my cases where a water treatment is practicable and where healing is urgently needed....

...My thanks to Aquarium Pharmaceuticals for a 1% and a 5% solutions for testing purposes. Thank you for providing quantities sufficient for replications in at least ten different situations and cases.
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Yes, Doc Johnson also highlights the negatives of the product but overall, that sounds like a thumbs up to me!

We could nit-pick certain snips of the article and go back and forth for days. Let others read the entire article and decide for themselves.

Or we could completely discard Doc Johnson's opinion and tests because he sells an overpriced or bunk product, "Doc Johnson's Aquarium Salt"
 
I don't really look at the prices of BULK sizes of products since 90%+ of hobbyists would NEVER need that volume of product. You would need a LOT of tanks and ponds going through cycling issues to need that much Prime or Safe.
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I just love how you keep reframing the argument to fit your needs :nono:

First of all if we talking about the economics of the dechlorinator in question, obviously those concerned with those issues arent your, as you put it, 90% of hobbiest. If they fell into that category then your right, why would they care??

You tried to make the argument that the API product was cheaper, I proved you wrong, nuff said. And we are not talking about a major purchase either, only 28 bucks....

But for those who do care, like me with 2 ponds, a 220, 125, 90, 75, 55, 40, and two 29 gallon tanks..trust me it matters. Not to mention I am doing 50% or more water changes daily on most of my tanks.
 
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Yes, Doc Johnson also highlights the negatives of the product but overall, that sounds like a thumbs up to me!
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Go back and read what I said about melafix, I said it was good for cuts and scrapes. It is however, useless as an anti-biotic treatment and that is part of how it is marketed. If Doc Johnson disproves that, I am not so sure its gets a thumbs up. If it was marketed as an aid to excellerate healing of superficial wounds, and only that, then yes I am sure he would give it a thumbs up.
 
This is why its best to do your own research and make your own decision on what works for you or else you get all this bickering which is useless.
I use big al's water conditioner works for me i like the price and dont need prime or api, what works for me might not work for you but thats fine there is alot to choose from in this hobby. Do what feels right to you ignore what everyone else has to say and enjoy the hobby. and always remember opinions are like **** we all have one :)
 
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