Tank Crash Disaster - Trying to salvage what I can
- Thread starter BioHazard
- Start date
Links and more long windedness. 
http://etd.lsu.edu/docs/available/etd-11112004-113024/unrestricted/Farmer_thesis.pdf
http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Columnaris.html
I believe the confusion lies in that the fish contract the disease because of low dissolved oxygen levels as stated in most studies. The low oxygen levels stress the fish making it susceptible to Columnaris, not because Columnaris likes low oxygen. Make sense? It is an aerobic bacteria so there is no reason why oxygen would be an enemy to this bacteria. When combined with high temps which stress the fish even more - the bacteria turns pathogenic because of the weakened immune system of the fish. The bacteria is afterall ubiquitous to all our tanks - or so they tell me
The fish need oxygen and so does this bacteria. Increasing the oxygen will most likely help the fish since Flavobacter commonly affects and attacks the gills of the fish. Upping the dissolved oxygen content by increasing aeration should counteract some of the Flavobacterium toxicity - but won't harm the bacteria directly.
Keeping organic wastes down in the tank by vacuuming and PWC's is most important as this bacteria seems to propagate exponentially there according to numerous studies.
Edit: This has nothing to do with the above but I found it interesting. Don't starve your fish! http://www.aquaflor-usa.com/secondary/articles/aqua_article3.html
http://etd.lsu.edu/docs/available/etd-11112004-113024/unrestricted/Farmer_thesis.pdf
http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Columnaris.html
I believe the confusion lies in that the fish contract the disease because of low dissolved oxygen levels as stated in most studies. The low oxygen levels stress the fish making it susceptible to Columnaris, not because Columnaris likes low oxygen. Make sense? It is an aerobic bacteria so there is no reason why oxygen would be an enemy to this bacteria. When combined with high temps which stress the fish even more - the bacteria turns pathogenic because of the weakened immune system of the fish. The bacteria is afterall ubiquitous to all our tanks - or so they tell me
The fish need oxygen and so does this bacteria. Increasing the oxygen will most likely help the fish since Flavobacter commonly affects and attacks the gills of the fish. Upping the dissolved oxygen content by increasing aeration should counteract some of the Flavobacterium toxicity - but won't harm the bacteria directly.
Keeping organic wastes down in the tank by vacuuming and PWC's is most important as this bacteria seems to propagate exponentially there according to numerous studies.
Edit: This has nothing to do with the above but I found it interesting. Don't starve your fish! http://www.aquaflor-usa.com/secondary/articles/aqua_article3.html
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Interesting converations.
No matter how well one aerates, can not go higher than atmospheric level. Another word, no super saturation of O2 level due to aeration. If you dissolve pure O2 into tank via diffuser, excess O2 will diffuse out of water to reach an equilibrium.
Aeration/bubbles is not O2, main reason for aeration is to agitate surface area for better gas exchange in order to reach equilibrium, be it N2, O2, Co2, etc, etc. Bubbles do have extra surface area for gas exchnages but can not go against law of nature unless induced in control environment.
Aeration do assist by creating/breaking up surface area for free gas exchange as certain waste products such as lipids, fatty acids, etc may hinder free gas exchange.
You also have to take it into consideration that to lower or raise or simply have it at stationary/fixed, usual normal temp should depend on whether you are dosing med or not.
Lower temp definitely will slow down metabolic rate of microbes and fish. Depending on types of microbes, it may assist or it may hinder depending on med.. It all depend on Pharmacokinetics of each specific med, how it attacks and destroy/maim microbes/parasites.
I would not raise nor lower when treating with med.
Fluctuation of temp is another stress factor as I encountered such increased possibility of Ich outbreaks. Try few separate tanks containing Clown loaches. One with good heater and stable temp. One with barely enough heating ability and one with small heater for that tank resulting in constant/drastic fluctuations.
Such experiments have given me the importance of stable temp, especially when dealing with sick, weakened fish.
What I mean is avoid jumping to conclusions!
Dealing with lifeforms are not as simple as we would like them to be.
When med is not avail, gradual decrease will most likely assist in slowing down the progression of infection until proper med can be dispensed.
Yes, I do know temp of water do fluctuates in nature but fish are not confined to small quarters we called tanks. Thus less chances of massive outbreaks.
I am just glad to hear things are looking up for BMS.
It's Christmas, a time for miracles!!!!
Good Night All!!!
No matter how well one aerates, can not go higher than atmospheric level. Another word, no super saturation of O2 level due to aeration. If you dissolve pure O2 into tank via diffuser, excess O2 will diffuse out of water to reach an equilibrium.
Aeration/bubbles is not O2, main reason for aeration is to agitate surface area for better gas exchange in order to reach equilibrium, be it N2, O2, Co2, etc, etc. Bubbles do have extra surface area for gas exchnages but can not go against law of nature unless induced in control environment.
Aeration do assist by creating/breaking up surface area for free gas exchange as certain waste products such as lipids, fatty acids, etc may hinder free gas exchange.
You also have to take it into consideration that to lower or raise or simply have it at stationary/fixed, usual normal temp should depend on whether you are dosing med or not.
Lower temp definitely will slow down metabolic rate of microbes and fish. Depending on types of microbes, it may assist or it may hinder depending on med.. It all depend on Pharmacokinetics of each specific med, how it attacks and destroy/maim microbes/parasites.
I would not raise nor lower when treating with med.
Fluctuation of temp is another stress factor as I encountered such increased possibility of Ich outbreaks. Try few separate tanks containing Clown loaches. One with good heater and stable temp. One with barely enough heating ability and one with small heater for that tank resulting in constant/drastic fluctuations.
Such experiments have given me the importance of stable temp, especially when dealing with sick, weakened fish.
What I mean is avoid jumping to conclusions!
Dealing with lifeforms are not as simple as we would like them to be.
When med is not avail, gradual decrease will most likely assist in slowing down the progression of infection until proper med can be dispensed.
Yes, I do know temp of water do fluctuates in nature but fish are not confined to small quarters we called tanks. Thus less chances of massive outbreaks.
I am just glad to hear things are looking up for BMS.
It's Christmas, a time for miracles!!!!
Good Night All!!!
Interesting article, Kivstev, re: the effects of food deprivation on mortality in fish infected with Columnaris. I'm going to make sure my fishies are nice and plump. (not obese, mind you, just a healthy plump )
)
I'm chiming in late, and don't expect to contribute much to an already excellent discussion on a number of topics.
I appreciate that care of specimens is as much an art as science, and what one aquarist swears by is the bane of the other. That said, here a few questions/thoughts based on my limited understanding of a complex situation... all to be taken with a grain of salt (pun intended):
1) What, exactly, is the complete stock of this 10 gallon tank? Do you believe it is overstocked?
2) Please detail your weekly maintenance regimen and tank filtration (filter model) including frequency the mechanical filtration is cleaned.
3) Do you regularly experience spikes in water chemistry (based on liquid test kit)? If so, when was the last time any notable changes in water chemistry occurred?
4) Were the new specimens quarantined? If so, for how long?
5) Do you trust the source of the gudgeons (i.e. reputable establishment/keeper)?
6) I believe you when you note that the specimen was covered in white, stringy patches but frankly, I don't see any evidence in the photos that this is/was necessarily columnaris. In fact, some of the photos I'm seeing hint at possible parasitic illness (and I don't mean ich). The popeye and "bloat" you described certainly suggest a general bacterial septicemia; the gudgeon just doesn't appear as expected in the photos.
7) Salt.... It is a strong personal preference (see the FW articles here at AC), but I don't use it for freshwater specimens unless I suspect parasitic infection. In that configuration, NaCl salt + heat is used as a medicinal (e.g. for ich). Otherwise, I don't use it.... ever. Period. I've seen too many bathes go horribly wrong before my eyes despite following protocols to the letter, too many specimens stressed, and precious little data to suggest salt addition to true freshwater systems does anything other than stress an already stressed specimen. The majority of the benefits attributed to salt use in freshwater systems is myth, just like the myth noted by Kivstev about airstones (which is absolutely correct).
I am not suggesting that the use of NaCl bath caused any harm in this situation, nor am I saying those who recommend salt bath/salt addition offer poor advice. I simply know that the "bath" is more for the benefit of the aquarist (executing active care) than of direct benefit to the fish. In short, salt addition and bathes are over-rated. Highly.
Did I mention that the use of salt in FW systems is over-rated?
8) Antibiotics: when you start a regimen, you finish it. No different in humans to prevent resistance and other complications. The aquarist must also resist the temptation to mix regimens unless the meds are specifically designed for synergistic use (e.g. Maracyn I/II).
9) Good-sized water change and gravel vac before addition of any meds.
Clean water/clean filter > any medication regimen.
Clean water/clean filter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Salt
10) As you are aware, many of these antibiotics may affect the biological bed. One of the benefits of Kanaplex is the minimal effect on these bacterial populations (despite questions re: its relative efficacy). Have you been monitoring your water parameters during treatment?
I appreciate that care of specimens is as much an art as science, and what one aquarist swears by is the bane of the other. That said, here a few questions/thoughts based on my limited understanding of a complex situation... all to be taken with a grain of salt (pun intended):
1) What, exactly, is the complete stock of this 10 gallon tank? Do you believe it is overstocked?
2) Please detail your weekly maintenance regimen and tank filtration (filter model) including frequency the mechanical filtration is cleaned.
3) Do you regularly experience spikes in water chemistry (based on liquid test kit)? If so, when was the last time any notable changes in water chemistry occurred?
4) Were the new specimens quarantined? If so, for how long?
5) Do you trust the source of the gudgeons (i.e. reputable establishment/keeper)?
6) I believe you when you note that the specimen was covered in white, stringy patches but frankly, I don't see any evidence in the photos that this is/was necessarily columnaris. In fact, some of the photos I'm seeing hint at possible parasitic illness (and I don't mean ich). The popeye and "bloat" you described certainly suggest a general bacterial septicemia; the gudgeon just doesn't appear as expected in the photos.
7) Salt.... It is a strong personal preference (see the FW articles here at AC), but I don't use it for freshwater specimens unless I suspect parasitic infection. In that configuration, NaCl salt + heat is used as a medicinal (e.g. for ich). Otherwise, I don't use it.... ever. Period. I've seen too many bathes go horribly wrong before my eyes despite following protocols to the letter, too many specimens stressed, and precious little data to suggest salt addition to true freshwater systems does anything other than stress an already stressed specimen. The majority of the benefits attributed to salt use in freshwater systems is myth, just like the myth noted by Kivstev about airstones (which is absolutely correct).
I am not suggesting that the use of NaCl bath caused any harm in this situation, nor am I saying those who recommend salt bath/salt addition offer poor advice. I simply know that the "bath" is more for the benefit of the aquarist (executing active care) than of direct benefit to the fish. In short, salt addition and bathes are over-rated. Highly.
Did I mention that the use of salt in FW systems is over-rated?
8) Antibiotics: when you start a regimen, you finish it. No different in humans to prevent resistance and other complications. The aquarist must also resist the temptation to mix regimens unless the meds are specifically designed for synergistic use (e.g. Maracyn I/II).
9) Good-sized water change and gravel vac before addition of any meds.
Clean water/clean filter > any medication regimen.
Clean water/clean filter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Salt
10) As you are aware, many of these antibiotics may affect the biological bed. One of the benefits of Kanaplex is the minimal effect on these bacterial populations (despite questions re: its relative efficacy). Have you been monitoring your water parameters during treatment?
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No, but I have been doing daily water changes to compensate for the presumed loss of the bacterial bed.I'm chiming in late, and don't expect to contribute much to an already excellent discussion on a number of topics.
I appreciate that care of specimens is as much an art as science, and what one aquarist swears by is the bane of the other. That said, here a few questions/thoughts based on my limited understanding of a complex situation... all to be taken with a grain of salt (pun intended):
1) What, exactly, is the complete stock of this 10 gallon tank? Do you believe it is overstocked?
Pre-crash, it was 5 peacock gudgeons, young, around 1 1/2 inches and around a dozen young guppy fry, none over 1 inch. Invert stock included a few mts, around 5 cherry shrimp and one brig.
I do not feel it was overstocked, but I could be wrong. I think it was the suddenly up in stock that crashed it. Also, I think I was overfeeding, as gudgeons can be tricky to feed.
2) Please detail your weekly maintenance regimen and tank filtration (filter model) including frequency the mechanical filtration is cleaned.
2 sponge filters, one rated for a 15gal and one for a 20 gal. WCs weekly. Filters cleaned monthly.
3) Do you regularly experience spikes in water chemistry (based on liquid test kit)? If so, when was the last time any notable changes in water chemistry occurred?
Guilty. I only test when first cycling a tank, I don't test weekly.
4) Were the new specimens quarantined? If so, for how long?
And guilty again. Throw the book at me. I had just had an issue with the neons, and my QT tank had not even been emptied yet. As I got the gudgeons while I was at work, I just explained how to add water to the bags to my parents.
5) Do you trust the source of the gudgeons (i.e. reputable establishment/keeper)?
Yes, as far as I know. I have visited the store once, and was VERY impressed with the knowledgeable staff and impeccable looking tanks.
6) I believe you when you note that the specimen was covered in white, stringy patches but frankly, I don't see any evidence in the photos that this is/was necessarily columnaris. In fact, some of the photos I'm seeing hint at possible parasitic illness (and I don't mean ich). The popeye and "bloat" you described certainly suggest a general bacterial septicemia; the gudgeon just doesn't appear as expected in the photos.
Could be right. I kinda jumped the gun by saying columnaris. It was just white stringy stuff, like mold. Very white. All over the face and fins.
7) Salt.... It is a strong personal preference (see the FW articles here at AC), but I don't use it for freshwater specimens unless I suspect parasitic infection. In that configuration, NaCl salt + heat is used as a medicinal (e.g. for ich). Otherwise, I don't use it.... ever. Period. I've seen too many bathes go horribly wrong before my eyes despite following protocols to the letter, too many specimens stressed, and precious little data to suggest salt addition to true freshwater systems does anything other than stress an already stressed specimen. The majority of the benefits attributed to salt use in freshwater systems is myth, just like the myth noted by Kivstev about airstones (which is absolutely correct).
I am not suggesting that the use of NaCl bath caused any harm in this situation, nor am I saying those who recommend salt bath/salt addition offer poor advice. I simply know that the "bath" is more for the benefit of the aquarist (executing active care) than of direct benefit to the fish. In short, salt addition and bathes are over-rated. Highly.
Did I mention that the use of salt in FW systems is over-rated?
Lol.
8) Antibiotics: when you start a regimen, you finish it. No different in humans to prevent resistance and other complications. The aquarist must also resist the temptation to mix regimens unless the meds are specifically designed for synergistic use (e.g. Maracyn I/II).
Yup.
9) Good-sized water change and gravel vac before addition of any meds.
Clean water/clean filter > any medication regimen.
Clean water/clean filter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Salt
Okay.
10) As you are aware, many of these antibiotics may affect the biological bed. One of the benefits of Kanaplex is the minimal effect on these bacterial populations (despite questions re: its relative efficacy). Have you been monitoring your water parameters during treatment?
Today's update. This morning, I was thrilled to see the gudgeon in the 5 gal sitting on the bottom, and moving normally. The tips of his pelvic fins still look a little funky, but I'm not sure. However, as it was looking so much better, I put it back in the 10 gal with the others, since they are all getting treated anyway. I just wanted him separated while he was in obvious distress.
I fed them, and got everyone to eat a few bloodworms. The two new ones are still pretty skinny, but I'm working on them. Once my white worm colony gets going, I'll have some live food too.
I plan to do a WC shortly. I will also try to get a few more pictures.
I fed them, and got everyone to eat a few bloodworms. The two new ones are still pretty skinny, but I'm working on them. Once my white worm colony gets going, I'll have some live food too.
I plan to do a WC shortly. I will also try to get a few more pictures.
I'm so glad they sound like they are feeling much better, Anna. Good job!
Good info and good questions, Doc.
Anna, AKA Biomajor, has always been an excellent fishkeeper with a really good maintenance routine, though she is a hurried and harried student and could have missed a WC in this tank, as we all may do at times.
It sounds like the new gudgeons brought in some pathogen; a good case for the importance of quarantining new fish.
On the salt debate: I've come over to the dark side, regarding salt, lol. Not really, but I do use it in certain circumstances.
Actually, I don't believe salt should be routinely added to the FW tank, though there are a lot of people that say it's good to have a small amount in there.
Even, the little instruction manual you get in the packaging of your new tank kit suggest a little salt should be in your FW fishtank. (At least my little 10 gallon begginer kit did, though I didn't see the reason for it and didn't do it)
I've read several papers that talk about the advocacy of salt dips in certain illnesses, though I would be scared to death to try it in the concentrations that are described.
I am sold, however, on the appropriateness of using salt as an adjunct to antibiotic treatment of Columnaris, after reading this abstract:
----------------------------------------------------------------
Effects of low salinities on Flavobacterium columnare infection of euryhaline and freshwater stenohaline fish
I Altinok & J M Grizzle 1 Southeastern Cooperative Fish Disease Project, Department of Fisheries and Allied Aquacultures, Auburn University, Auburn, AL, USA
Correspondence to: Dr Grizzle
Copyright Blackwell Science Ltd
KEYWORDS
Flavobacterium columnare • columnaris • salinity • growth • adhesion • pathology
ABSTRACT
Channel catfish, Ictalurus punctatus (Rafinesque), goldfish, Carassius auratus (L.), striped bass, Morone saxatilis (Walbaum), and Gulf sturgeon, Acipenser oxyrinchus desotoi Vladykov, were acclimatized to fresh water or salinities of 9.0‰ or less and then exposed to Flavobacterium columnare (formerly known as Flexibacter columnaris), the bacterial pathogen that causes columnaris disease. None of the fish acclimatized to 3.0 or 9.0‰ salinity died, and all deaths in lower salinities occurred between 1 and 5 days after exposure to F. columnare. Mortality was 97.7% in fresh water and 67.1% in 1.0‰ salinity for channel catfish (model SE, 1.8) and 66.5% in fresh water and 40.8% in 1.0‰ salinity for goldfish (model SE, 1.2); and 96.9% in fresh water and 61.7% in 1.0‰ salinity for striped bass (model SE, 1.8). After exposure to F. columnare, none of the Gulf sturgeon died. Flavobacterium columnare was isolated from the skin and gills of all fish dying during the experiments, but was not isolated from survivors in fresh water and 1.0‰ salinity 21 days after bacterial exposure. In vitro growth of bacteria was significantly higher in 1.0 or 3.0‰ salinity than in control medium (0.3‰ salinity). However, in vitro adhesion of bacteria was reduced with increasing salinity, which could explain the lower mortality of fish at higher salinities.
DIGITAL OBJECT IDENTIFIER (DOI)
10.1046/j.1365-2761.2001.00306.x About DOI
------------------------------------------------------------------
I do agree with you, Doc. I don't think salt is a cure all and should be used rarely, and only in certain circumstances.
The best instance is in treating Ich. I have used a 3% salinity in the tank, safely, while treating for Ich, and went 28 days at 86 degrees F with no harm to the occupants, even snails, and cured the Ich outbreak. The fish, even cats, handled it very well.
In a case where there is strong reason to believe that a fish may have Columnaris, based on a description that includes the classic signs of Columnaris, and without photographs that could prove or disprove, I would go ahead and start adding some dissolved salt, gradually bringing the salinity up to 3%.
I think another AC member suggested the salt dip, and in the case of Columnaris that would be an appropriate kind of emergency aid in that situation. IMO.
I think in this case, however, it looks lik it's not Columnaris after all, but the appearance of that one fish with the stringy white stuff all over it, as Anna described it, sounded pretty indicative.
In her situation, having to rush out to school and not being able to stick around to observe more closely for several hours, the likelihood that it was Columnaris made using salt seem like a good decision, to me, rather than delay.
At any rate I don't think the addition of salt did any harm, and I'm just so delighted they seem to be improving.
Good info and good questions, Doc.
Anna, AKA Biomajor, has always been an excellent fishkeeper with a really good maintenance routine, though she is a hurried and harried student and could have missed a WC in this tank, as we all may do at times.
It sounds like the new gudgeons brought in some pathogen; a good case for the importance of quarantining new fish.
On the salt debate: I've come over to the dark side
, regarding salt, lol. Not really, but I do use it in certain circumstances. Actually, I don't believe salt should be routinely added to the FW tank, though there are a lot of people that say it's good to have a small amount in there.
Even, the little instruction manual you get in the packaging of your new tank kit suggest a little salt should be in your FW fishtank. (At least my little 10 gallon begginer kit did, though I didn't see the reason for it and didn't do it)
I've read several papers that talk about the advocacy of salt dips in certain illnesses, though I would be scared to death to try it in the concentrations that are described.
I am sold, however, on the appropriateness of using salt as an adjunct to antibiotic treatment of Columnaris, after reading this abstract:
----------------------------------------------------------------
Effects of low salinities on Flavobacterium columnare infection of euryhaline and freshwater stenohaline fish
I Altinok & J M Grizzle 1 Southeastern Cooperative Fish Disease Project, Department of Fisheries and Allied Aquacultures, Auburn University, Auburn, AL, USA
Correspondence to: Dr Grizzle
Copyright Blackwell Science Ltd
KEYWORDS
Flavobacterium columnare • columnaris • salinity • growth • adhesion • pathology
ABSTRACT
Channel catfish, Ictalurus punctatus (Rafinesque), goldfish, Carassius auratus (L.), striped bass, Morone saxatilis (Walbaum), and Gulf sturgeon, Acipenser oxyrinchus desotoi Vladykov, were acclimatized to fresh water or salinities of 9.0‰ or less and then exposed to Flavobacterium columnare (formerly known as Flexibacter columnaris), the bacterial pathogen that causes columnaris disease. None of the fish acclimatized to 3.0 or 9.0‰ salinity died, and all deaths in lower salinities occurred between 1 and 5 days after exposure to F. columnare. Mortality was 97.7% in fresh water and 67.1% in 1.0‰ salinity for channel catfish (model SE, 1.8) and 66.5% in fresh water and 40.8% in 1.0‰ salinity for goldfish (model SE, 1.2); and 96.9% in fresh water and 61.7% in 1.0‰ salinity for striped bass (model SE, 1.8). After exposure to F. columnare, none of the Gulf sturgeon died. Flavobacterium columnare was isolated from the skin and gills of all fish dying during the experiments, but was not isolated from survivors in fresh water and 1.0‰ salinity 21 days after bacterial exposure. In vitro growth of bacteria was significantly higher in 1.0 or 3.0‰ salinity than in control medium (0.3‰ salinity). However, in vitro adhesion of bacteria was reduced with increasing salinity, which could explain the lower mortality of fish at higher salinities.
DIGITAL OBJECT IDENTIFIER (DOI)
10.1046/j.1365-2761.2001.00306.x About DOI
------------------------------------------------------------------
I do agree with you, Doc. I don't think salt is a cure all and should be used rarely, and only in certain circumstances.
The best instance is in treating Ich. I have used a 3% salinity in the tank, safely, while treating for Ich, and went 28 days at 86 degrees F with no harm to the occupants, even snails, and cured the Ich outbreak. The fish, even cats, handled it very well.
In a case where there is strong reason to believe that a fish may have Columnaris, based on a description that includes the classic signs of Columnaris, and without photographs that could prove or disprove, I would go ahead and start adding some dissolved salt, gradually bringing the salinity up to 3%.
I think another AC member suggested the salt dip, and in the case of Columnaris that would be an appropriate kind of emergency aid in that situation. IMO.
I think in this case, however, it looks lik it's not Columnaris after all, but the appearance of that one fish with the stringy white stuff all over it, as Anna described it, sounded pretty indicative.
In her situation, having to rush out to school and not being able to stick around to observe more closely for several hours, the likelihood that it was Columnaris made using salt seem like a good decision, to me, rather than delay.
At any rate I don't think the addition of salt did any harm, and I'm just so delighted they seem to be improving.
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Salt
IMO the addition of salt to a FW aquarium is only worthwhile in cases of Ich and Columnaris. We pretty much all agree on the Ich, but it seems to be fairly documented now that salt decreases the adhesion properties of Flavobacteria to the skin and gills of fish. So I agree with Mel and not Doc No on that point. I also agree that it is not needed or even beneficial in the average FW aquarium set up.
I've personally treated Kribs and Boesemani with 3% salt dips and cured them of full blown Columnaris using no other meds. I have also not been able to cure some fish with that method - or any method. I believe the key is to treat them with a moderate to strong solution of salt within the first few hours of the onset of symptoms - especially if it is one of the virulent forms of F. Columnare. Mel's posted abstract seems to subscribe to that as well. Once the bacteria goes systemic, it can be very difficult if not impossible to treat successfully even with antibiotics.
I just ordered some oxytetracycline (Terramycin) to try next time I have a case of Columnaris or tail rot. We will see how that goes, but I will give the fish a salt dip or 3 first.
Looking at the fish pics above: If those fish had Columnaris, Cerianthus was absolutely correct: Christmas is a indeed a time for miracles! :joke:
Happy Holidays everyone...
IMO the addition of salt to a FW aquarium is only worthwhile in cases of Ich and Columnaris. We pretty much all agree on the Ich, but it seems to be fairly documented now that salt decreases the adhesion properties of Flavobacteria to the skin and gills of fish. So I agree with Mel and not Doc No on that point. I also agree that it is not needed or even beneficial in the average FW aquarium set up.
I've personally treated Kribs and Boesemani with 3% salt dips and cured them of full blown Columnaris using no other meds. I have also not been able to cure some fish with that method - or any method. I believe the key is to treat them with a moderate to strong solution of salt within the first few hours of the onset of symptoms - especially if it is one of the virulent forms of F. Columnare. Mel's posted abstract seems to subscribe to that as well. Once the bacteria goes systemic, it can be very difficult if not impossible to treat successfully even with antibiotics.
I just ordered some oxytetracycline (Terramycin) to try next time I have a case of Columnaris or tail rot. We will see how that goes, but I will give the fish a salt dip or 3 first.
Looking at the fish pics above: If those fish had Columnaris, Cerianthus was absolutely correct: Christmas is a indeed a time for miracles! :joke:
Happy Holidays everyone...
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