tank set-up

Morbius

The Living Vampire
Aug 24, 2006
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Saginaw Mi
Hello all, I had to do a 100% WC yesterday and start over. This time I'm doing a fishless cycle using ammonia. Also, By doing the measurements on my tank(36' x 17' x 30') it is a 25 gal instead of 35!) So I filled a 12 ml dropper with ammonia and put it in the tank.I then checked my ammonia ,and it was @ 5mg/l, I have set my temp to 85 degrees and also changed my bio bag. I have 2 questions: 1 when my ammonia level starts to drop,how much ammonia do i put in to feed the growing bacteria, and 2, if the temp rises higher than 85 degrees what would happen to the bacteria starting to grow? The reason i ask is because I have the thermometer that sticks on the side of the tank,but also one that bobs....one is 85 the other is like 86....I have lowered my heater,but how much danger am i in?????
 
First question...I'd keep it in the 2-3 ppm range. The bacteria that are starting to develop and create nitrites, really do not care for high ammonia levels.

Second...I think the temp is to high. I recommend keeping your tank at normal tank temps that you plan on having.
 
Hello rbishop,I did a ammonia test today and it sez it's now 3.0 mg/l.....I'm using the tetra test kit,and the 5.0 and 3.0 color are closely the same. I read on another forum that a temp of 85 helps bacteria grow faster,only adjust it back to normal when adding fish.
 
I can understand the temp issue, helps with ich treatment. Do not know of any reason why it would harm a cycle. Just have seen "normal" tank temps when people discussed cycling. It would figure that cold is much worse than high.

Been researching what fish you plan on having?
 
Man,to be honest with u bishop....I'm really just trying to get my tank where it needs to be.This is my 2nd attemp @ setting up a tank....tried it last year and it was a total disater.I did a fishy cycle,not knowing anything but what the lfs people told me to do,man u would think that people working with fish would know @ least how to set up a tank.All my fish died or got ich.....because it never cycled properly.The reason I had to do a 100% wc is because the lfs (again mistake on my part)told me to put a whole bottle of cycle in @ the beginning of the cycle......my tank ran for 15 days and my ammonia level never rose fell or anything.What i reaaly want bishop is to find a forum that can help me to make sure i'm doing what needs to be done correctly,so i my tank can sustain fish that stay healthy and thrive.
 
Well, I think you are at the right place.

LFS people, are a lot like any other place, varying levels of knowledge by the staff that work in the same department.

Even on here, you sometimes will get conflicting advice. What works for one does not always work for all. There are many variables in aquaria keeping. Guess for me, what torques me most, is how many people will jump on the bandwagon of the one exception to a guideline and start spouting it as gospel.

One of the biggest issues is stocking a tank. SO many people do not look at real adult size of their fish they are about to purchase. It is more than, "can I physically get them in there" and keep chemistry under control.

Do they have room to swim? To turn around? A place to hide and feel secure? Do they like to be in groups so more natural behaviour is exhibited?

Does their behavior change as they get older? Become aggressive when entering maturity or when the pair off and want to spawn?

Do they have the same food requirements? Temperature needs? Substrate and decor?

Lots of things to consider, but not insurmountable.

I think you are off to a good start. Be prepared to dose additional ammonia once your cycle is complete, to keep your bacteria alive/fed until you get fish in.

Any more questions, just ask...it's a quiet Sunday afternoon.
 
Thank u bishop!u seem to be a straight shooter.First,I want to know....when my ammonia starts to drop,do I dose to bring it back up to 3mg/l or just give it a lil to keep the bacteria going.If it is just a little bit...how much? Like i said i used a 12 ml dropper full,so do i just put in ...say 2 ml...half....I feel these things are important seeing as this is the crucial point in cycling.
 
I try to be. If I do not know, I'll state that up front. If it is not from direct experience or from extremely reliable sources, it will be, "I've heard".
When adding to maintain levels and let nitirites/nitrates build, dose conservatively. You can always add more if test shows show, or do a partial drain and fill to get back in range. Remember, measure twice cut once....oops (this isn't This Old House) :laugh:

HTH...

(2) Fishless Cycling

Just as it sounds, you can establish the cycling environment without any
fish. This method does not pose any threat to fish, establishes a large
bacteria colony allowing full stocking upon completion and gives you time to
decide on what fish you want.

When establishing a tank with this method, you will use a source of ammonia
to initiate the nitrogen cycle. After your tank is set up, add water and
treat for chlorine/chloramines. Your filtering systems and heaters should be
in place and operating to your satisfaction.

Add ammonia to bring the tank to a concentration of 5 ppm. The amount you
add will vary with the size tank you have. Do not be in a rush. Add small
amounts and test, repeating as necessary. If you get it too high, you can
drain and refill.

Now the hurry up and wait part happens. Every two days, test your ammonia
level in the tank. When the ammonia levels start dropping, add additional
ammonia as required to keep the ammonia at 3-4 ppm, start daily testing and
test for ammonia and nitrites. Nitrites should be developing as ammonia goes
away. This first stage could take 1-3 weeks.

When you see the test results showing Nitrites, start maintaining your
ammonia at the 2-3 ppm range. The nitrites increasing reflect you are in to
the second stage. Continue daily testing for ammonia and maintain the tank in
the 3 ppm range. You will see nitrites climb so high they will be off the
scale for a reading. This will continue for one to two weeks and it will seem
the nitrites are never going to go away.

There will be a day where you test and the nitrites have completely
disappeared, thus, the bacteria that convert them to nitrates have
established themselves. When you see this drop to zero on nitrites, dose
ammonia in the tank to about 5 ppm, and wait 24 hours. If at the end of that
period, ammonia and nitrites are zero, your cycle has been established. Test
for nitrates, and do a 75-90% water change. Pull your water down to 20 ppm
nitrates and add the fish! If you have to wait to get your fish, keep the
cycle established by dosing more ammonia, but you may have to do another
water change before adding your fish.
 
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Thanx. Also,does keeping the tank light on stop bacteria from growing? And doesit lead to green algae forming?
 
I have not seen/heard anything that would relate to a slower bacteria level growth rate because lights are on.

Green algae needs the light but it also needs nutrients. If an excess nutrient level isn't there, having lights on will not be enough. Try a search here in the threads for algae and you will find many and cures. Basically keep the tank free of excess nutrients from overfeeding and poor maintenance, no direct sunlight and reasonable light levels.
 
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