Tank Vacuuming Conclusions

[Vince G.]

I think it depends on whether you are using a filter or plants for filtration and whether you have an organic or inorganic substrate.

If you grow plants in an organic substrate and rely on those plants for filtration then you don't need to do gravel siphons. This works because the organics in the substrate create a great nutrient sink so most of the excess nutrients from the mulm stay where they should - under the surface of the gravel where your plants can use them. If you are relying on plants to process all of the ammonia in the tank you will need to have at enough plants for your particular bioload. This is easy if you're keeping small fish but you'd need a ton of plants to handle big fish, which might not be possible in some setups.

Gotcha. With an organic substrate and a filter there are two colonies of bacteria working to break down fish waste, and both colonies of bacteria work together to process ammonia in the tank. By having an inorganic substrate, the mulm basically just sits there and is not converted to nutrients that the plants can use in a location in which they can use them. Right? So an organic substrate in my case will definitely help to break down the amount of mulm that is being produced in my tank, since the substrate that I have now (inorganic gravel) is not breaking down anything, and can potentially be an ammonia trap if not vaccumed often enough. (Thanks again for the Old Tank Syndrome diagnosis from a few months ago!)

I think this is more visual. The waste/debris created by larger fish is much harder to ignore. A few flakes in the gravel is nothing, but a bunch of krill bits or chunks of pellets everywhere is something that may concern the aquarium owner when it comes to appearances/water quality. Plus considering that bigger fish = bigger poo and thus it is less likely to simply fall through the gravel and disappear from view.

Khemul, I'm not sure if I agree about it only being visual. Using your example, What I was trying to say is that bigger fish=bigger poo=more mulm that needs to be vacuumed. After the poo breaks down it does fall through the gravel, mixing with everything else down there and becoming mulm (At least that's what happens in my tank, with regular sized gravel). Even if you don't see it, it's still there. I know when I do vacuum, The gravel looks fine on top, but a few inches down is where everything is.

Sand is very easy to vacuum. You just wave the vacuum over the sand (high enough where the sand doesn't get pulled up) and watch the debris get sucked into the vac. Plus you tend to see everything that needs to get vacuumed right away rather then worrying about what is below the surface. In that way it would be more convenient in cases where frequent vacuuming is required.

I've been hearing that more and more, I guess it was just my own inexperience with sand that made me think that is was an inconvenience to vacuum. I'm still leaning toward Black Fluorite sand (or at least that as a capping material), and I'm hoping that I won't have to vacuum it often, but if I do, I can perfect this technique of just pulling the waste off of the top.

 

[fishorama]

Flourite sand is much more a PITA to vac IME than pool filter sand, I capped mine with Estes marine sand but it's not much better.

 

[bluemeate]

whats the difference between organic and inorganic substrate?

i have home depot gravel which im guessing is inorganic, so i must gravel vac it.
why cant the plant roots just dig into the mulm and suck the nutrients out of that?

is there organic gravel? or what is organic substrate? dirt?

 

[Vince G.]

I think that I had it all wrong. When I first read Dr. Awkward's post, I was thinking:
Organic Substrate=Eco Complete,Fluorite,ADA Soil, etc,
Inorganic Substrate=Gravel,Pool sand

After reading a little, someone tell me if I am right or wrong.
An organic substrate is something that is made of organic materials, such as peat or organic potting soil, which has peat,humus and other organic materials in it.
All of the other substrates that we are mentioning here are inorganic - Eco Complete,Fluorite, ada soil, pool sand, etc

From what I have been reading on websites, some people recommend putting a small amount of organic material underneath your substrate as a benifit to the plants.

Am I right that these other non-gravel substrates (Eco,etc) do cultivate BB where regular aquarium gravel does not? I'm assuming yes because they are clay-based and porous, similar to the medium that you put in your filter. Or am I just WAY off?:wall:

This I'm sure of:
bluemeate, the mulm has to be broken down into nutrients by bacteria in order for the plants to use it. When the mulm is broken down into nutrients in the substrate, and you have a substrate with a high CEC, the nutrients are held in the substrate, and then can be used by the plants at the root level.

I don't believe that there is an organic gravel.

 

[Khemul]

BB can grow on gravel. Hell, it grows on just about everything. It is just a matter of surface area really. Some surface areas are so small that we don't count them when estimating bio-filtration. Not sure about comparisons on the amount of BB in gravel vs sand, but it'd probably depend a lot on the type of sand/gravel.

 

[bluemeate]

This I'm sure of:
bluemeate, the mulm has to be broken down into nutrients by bacteria in order for the plants to use it. When the mulm is broken down into nutrients in the substrate, and you have a substrate with a high CEC, the nutrients are held in the substrate, and then can be used by the plants at the root level.

What is CEC? Cation Exchange Capacity?

 

[Vince G.]

Yes. Its the ability of the substrate to absorb nutrients and then pass them on to your plants.