tap ph swings. use a buffer?

SnakeIce

SnakeIce

AC Members
May 4, 2002
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North Ga, USA
Real Name
Frederick
my tap water during the months october-may is a reasonable 7.2-7.3 but in june each year the system changes sources and the ph begins its anual summer climb to around 9.0.

Is there some way to regulate things. I have plants but am not running enough light to use co2 to bring that high ph down and the ph is fine for about 7 months out of the year.

so any product suggestions? every summer is a nightmare trying to keep the tanks healthy cause of the elevated ph
 
The water stays at the higher level after aeration? Short of using RO, you could use peat filtration to reduce the pH considerably, but I don't know that it will drop it down to 7.2-3. Have you checked http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/ for advice? wetmanNY has a great page on softening.
 
Well I know that someone's going to disagree with this... but... I bought this pH 7.0 stuff and it works really well. I suppose if you did the math to know how much of it to add to your water before adding it than you could use it. But I'd suggest letting it sit in your water for at least an hour before adding it to your tank. Some people warned me against using it but my fish are doing quite well in it, and it slowly rises to about 7.2 after a couple of days. Good luck :)
 
I will have to go test aereated/aged water and the other things. I just bought jungle's quick dip test strips. previously i just had ph testors. I am in the process of learning all about my water district and the input therin. I just found out that they have monthly meetings but I just missed this months meeting. so I wll have to wait to find out the details of the source water and what additives they use.

will be back with the results of the tests
 
OK this is the first time i have used these tests so results are approximate

fresh tap water out of an areating faucet: nitrate 10, nitrite 0, gh 120, kh 180, ph 8.0
aged tap water, same order list: 10, 0, gh75, kh 170, ph 7.9
my 20 gal: 30, 0, 150, 160, ph 7.7
my wife's 10 gal: 20, 0, 120, 170, 7.8

Have been adding non-phosphorus ph down for the last week to the tanks my goal is to obtain the 7.2-3 that I have for most of the year
 
I would expect that with KH of 180 ppm, you'll have a devil of a time getting the pH to stabilize by adding pH Down. As the buffer (KH) takes up the acid in pH Down, your pH will begin to creep up again, at which point you'll have to add more, and this cycle will complete until the buffer is exhausted. At this point, KH will be very low and your tank will be prone to wild pH swings. Even worse, when you add more tap water during partial changes, the buffer will be replenished and your pH will shoot up again.

Proper pH (or Ph 7.0 or any of the phosphates-based buffers) will have similar problems. You'll have the added headache of greatly increasing TDS in the tank, and with a KH of 180 you'll have to use so much phosphates-based buffer that your tank will be prone to severe algae outbreaks.

You would be much better off getting your fish accustomed to the higher pH year-round and boosting pH in months where the tap water's pH dips. For most fish, a constant 7.9 will be much easier to tolerate than a swinging 7.3 to 7.9 with lots of extra chemicals in the water. Unless you're trying to breed tetras or something like that, the 7.9 should be OK.

You could always use reverse osmosis year-round and reconstitute water to your preferences, but that can be expensive...

HTH,
Jim
 
SnakeIce, JSchmidt gives the general picture: you've got too strong a carbonate buffer with your lime-rich summer water to shift it safely.

What about your roof? Is it sloped and clean? If I weren't in an apartment building with a flat tarred roof right in Manhattan, I'd be tempted to use rainwater-- except that our NYC water is so soft as it is!

Have you looked at the modern rainbarrels at the Home Depot? If you could use about 7/8 rainwater... of course your neighbors will spread the rumor that you're a Green Socialist...

Meanwhile, I googled "Walla Walla water": One of the sites that came up was Walla Walla Watershed. Your utility should have their "consumer confidence report" uploaded somewhere.

Every fishkeeper should know about their water!

yashimfan, nobody's going to disagree! we don't even know which "stuff" you're using. So. tell us: what are its ingredients? I'm an old stickler about never putting anything into the water unless I know what it is. Even if it has "eco-" or "bio-" in the tradename!
 
Proper pH 7.0

is what I'm using. Ingredients: Aloe vera, eggs (ech smells sooooooo bad), does not list other ingredients.
This is what is does: "Automatically sets pH at 7.0, Neutralizes chlorine, detoxifies heavy metals, adds electrolytes." It says not to use with live plants, though.

Hope that helps
 
yashinfan your "Proper pH7.0" is made by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, and they have a website www.aquariumpharm.com When you go to the site, the product is listed among the aquarium water additives, and makes this claim: Automatically sets and stabilizes pH at 7.0. Removes chlorine & detoxifies heavy metals. For community aquariums. Contains Aloe Vera and electrolytes.

If you click the button "Product Tech Sheet" you get further compatibility notes: . Proper pH 7.0 is a phosphate buffer and should not be used with live aquatic plants. If the aquarium water has a general hardness (GH) level above 200 ppm a haze can form in the water. This haze is the precipitation of some of the mineral salts. It is non-toxic and will be filtered out by most aquarium filters.

So this phosphate buffer isn't recommended even by the manufacturer for planted aquaria, like SnakeIce's.

Way down at the bottom of the "Tech Sheet" you can download an "MSDS for this product"

That refers to a required OSHA "Material Safety Data Sheet." It lists Sodium Thiosulfate (that's the common dechlorinator), Tetrasodium EDTA (that's the common chelator, that detoxifies heavy metals), and "Trade Secret #1, Trade Secret #2, Trade Secret #3"

What do you think of a corporation withholding this information on the official MSDS? It seems pretty cheeky to me! At least we know it's partly phosphate.

So the "electrolytes" you're adding with "Proper pH7.0" are in fact partly sodium-- as always.

I don't want to put "Trade Secret #1, Trade Secret #2, Trade Secret #3" in my aquarium.
 
One of those secrets is eggs, that's all I remember. A fish breeder I know called up and asked if they were harmful things and the person responded that one of them was in fact eggs and gives it its distinct "rotten egg" odour. I don't have any plants in my aquarium so I guess that's why it works for me :)
 
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