Teracotta poison?

[birket]

The tank is 120 lires (not sure about the gallons equiv). The loaches are about 3 inches long (quite young). They have been added in batches of 2 or 3 at a time, but this has all happened in the last couple of weeks and I have had the fish for 3 or 4 months.

I have an external bio-flter (eheim) with a spray bar and an internal mach-filter that came with the Jewel tank. I will try the water tests again. I change the water (25-30%) once every week or 2.

Is that a typical indication of ammonia poisoning then? My last loach is panting and seems to loose balance evry now and again. I can only describe the behaviour as a bit 'stiff' if you catch my drift.

When I do my water changes, I use tap water and add Stress-coat. Is there any other thing I should be adding/doing when I add this new water. I'm in oxford (UK) and I know that the water isn't fantastic. The Ph has always been at about 8-8.4 but I have been told by my local shop that this should be fine.

 

[TJcanada]

EDIT:*you beat me to it*

hmmm Dark may be on to something...? *rubbing posterior from the cyber kick about not asking tanks specs *
Ok tell us more birket - how do you keep your tank, size, water changes/gravel vac, filteration, any water additives, plants, no plants, substrate material, feeding schedual, new fish additions, and post your test perameters(numbers!), when did the fish start dying off, who first?????....questions and more questions...til someone can help point you in the right direction...guessing/hypothizing is all anyone can do - and fish keeping doesn't have to be complicated....but knowledge is power figuratively speaking.

 

[birket]

OK y'all - I shall do my tests again and give you the full low-down tomorrow.

Thanks again.

 

[TJcanada]

Is that a typical indication of ammonia poisoning then? My last loach is panting and seems to loose balance evry now and again. I can only describe the behaviour as a bit 'stiff' if you catch my drift.-birket

Gills can swell with ammonia toxicity and they do "pant" - but nitrIte will do the same if not more damage. One of the first signs of NitrIte poisoning is "red streaked" fins and/or skin(veining)- as it's been my experience, not seen that symptom with ammonia personally. BUT parasites that infest the gills will also cause the fish to strain for O2 uptake and sometimes cause excess mucus production.
Did you quatentine the new arrivals before adding them to the tank?
About bottom dwellers: being so close to the substrate, IMO, if it's not kept in very good condition(clean of dirt/decaying matter), they are the first to show signs of stress and symptoms of falling water quality.
One thing to consider is that water quality and parasites go hand in hand - declining waterQ stresses fish which inturn can cause parasites and/or bacteria to take advantage of thier "hosts". The overall health of an individual fish determines the possiblity/amount of time in which these problems start to show.

Just my thoughts for the moment..........

 

[wetmanNY]

birket,

at your very high pH (8.0-8.4) just about all your ammonia is in its toxic un-ionized form, NH3. Even the merest trace in an ammonia test will be toxic. When posters say their tests for ammonia are" normal" I always wonder what that means-- and I'm wondering whether Oxford's water is chloraminated. That would mean that when you de-chlorinate at water changes, freed ammonia is stressing your fishes. Water statistics are available on-line.

I would strongly suggest that you use AmQuel to detoxify the freed NH3. It binds the NH3, but leaves it available for your nitrifying bacteria. Avoid water conditioners with ingredients that supplement mucus. The mucus layer on a healthy gill is one micron thick!

You seem so confident about your used flowerpot that I assume it's one you bought new and that you have potted up your plant in it without fertilizers or insecticides. I think it would be hard to persuade you to replace it with a new one. (brightening up) Perhaps you have already done so.

Toxins in the water would be adsorbed by fresh activated charcoal in your filtration. Highly recommended. After four days or so, carbon is pretty much spent. If you're medicating for microscopic external parasites, though, you'll have to leave out the carbon til you're finished. This you already know...

 

[birket]

I'm pretty sure the water is chlorinated - i can sometimes smell it feintly. Where would I get AmQuel in the UK? I just did a quick search and had no joy.

I noticed an 'ammonia alarm' which might be a useful thing.

 

[Darkangel]

Personally I am leaning more and more towards ammonia here. 120 litres is only about 30 gallons. That is a fairly small tank for 5-3 inch clown loaches an unknown size pleco, a school of neons and a school of tiger barbs. You never say how big the pleco was or how many the other fish were. Toxins like insecticides would only need to be in the vicinity of parts per million. A very very small amount would kill your fish. What I think wetmanNY was asking you was if you have chloramine in your water which is different then chlorine. wetmanNY, as I do not use test kits I do not know but you may, will ammonia show up on a standard test kit in its toxic un-ionized form. This statement of "I change the water (25-30%) once every week or 2." by birket also leads me to believe it is ammonia. Perhaps you have skipped a change or two? Easy to do at this time of year for any of us. Again all this is just my thoughts, just my 2 cents worth.

 

[wetmanNY]

Chloramine is a molecule of chlorine and ammonia that is more stable in the water mains than simple chlorine. That "chlorine" smell in your tapwater doesn't tell you which your utility is using. Go to their website and find out!

Twice the dose of your usual dechlorinator (sodium thiosulfate) breaks the chlorine-ammonia bond of chloramine, freeing that NH3. You want to bind it immediately, because it's toxic. Ammonia-adsorbing zeolite in the filter will be good, or zeolite products with names like "Ammo-Lock"

There have been many thousands of aquarium fish deaths in the US as we've switched to chloramines in the last decade...

 

[wetmanNY]

Yes, DarkAngel, a test kit will test for non-ionized NH3 and ionized NH4.

 

[RTR]

If I can be forgiven for incesticides (which do sound intriguing for a mental typo), I guess Wetman can be forgiven for exaggerating the percentage of ammonia at the stated pH - it only gets to >20% at 86F and pH 8.5

http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/ammonia-toxicity.html

But if you take in the whole article, ammonia is just not a good thing at hobby-kit-detectable levels.