The bring up a ph level...?
- Thread starter rathman
- Start date
well figs being the highest food that raises ph aren't eaten by fish. The next highest way 7 this would raise the ph of the fish more than the water is spinnach. spinnach is normaly blanched in salt & useing baking soda instead wouldn't be that far off. as long as boiling baking soda for a few minutes doesn't deminish the baking sodas ph raising propertys , baking soda is sodium mostly & thats another form of salt ,maybe someone more helpful than RTR can add or throw out this theory. it works for people too
I doubt you consider me more helpfull than RTR, but then I have not thought of myself ever as being more helpful than RTR so here goes anyhow.
#1 for clarification, limestone, crushed coral etc. are all forms of calcium carbonate and all will work. basically the finer it's ground and the purer the make-up the faster it will tend to dissolve. Most (maybe all) forms of calcium carbonate will slow or quit dissolving at a ph of roughly 7.6- 7.8. so there are some limiting factors with using calcium carbonate. one thing is for certain, if you have good amounts of CaCo3 in your tank it will be very stable at whatever level the Caco3 quits dissolving at. With Cichlids (assuming rift lake fish) copious amounts of any Form of CaCo3 will be a benefit.
#2 Baking soda is Sodium Bicarbonate, which is mostly carbonate and only a small amount of sodium. Noy by any stretch is baking soda mostly sodium. It is unlikely that the spinach would absorb quantities capable of helping you much, and even if it did. the process would be painfully slow, and you would be limited in your ability to do water changes. It is unlikely that your fish could consume enough baking soda blanched spinich to counteract good maintenance.
#3 baking soda is a viable way to raise PH, but it is fast and therefore should be used with caution. Unlike CaCo3 the Baking soda will raise well beyond what is desired for your fish. I do not know the limits to what it will do, but I haven't found them even when mixing concentrates to dose my tank.
#4. Salt For anyone who is confused is NaCl, and although baking soda and Salt both contain Sodium they are not really that similar as chemical compounds. That would be about the same as saying Calcium Chloride (limestone) and Sodium Cloride (salt) are simlar compounds because they both contain Clride.
Now since you are talking about cichlids, (I am still assuming African) then as with most fish the Ph is not as critical as the solids levels in the water. GH is a decent indicator of solids (far from perfect but still useable) If you don't want to use pre-made cichlid salts (not to be confused with Table salt in it's variuos forms) then concentrate on Calcium and magnesium levels in cunjunction with Kh levels. The CaCO3 will add a bit of calcium, but stops dissolving at higher Ph levels, so CaCl (Ice melter) or Ca2SO4 will increase calcium, and MgSO4 (epsom Salts) will increase magnesium. Cichlid salts as packaged are primarily these mineral salts with additional trace elements. it isn't too difficult to duplicate the rift lakes well enough with your own mix.
I am by no means a cichlid expert or a rift lake expert, but do have some experience with the chemical make-ups of hard water including the rift lakes. Others Like RTR with actual experience may be able to add to or correct this information.
Dave
#1 for clarification, limestone, crushed coral etc. are all forms of calcium carbonate and all will work. basically the finer it's ground and the purer the make-up the faster it will tend to dissolve. Most (maybe all) forms of calcium carbonate will slow or quit dissolving at a ph of roughly 7.6- 7.8. so there are some limiting factors with using calcium carbonate. one thing is for certain, if you have good amounts of CaCo3 in your tank it will be very stable at whatever level the Caco3 quits dissolving at. With Cichlids (assuming rift lake fish) copious amounts of any Form of CaCo3 will be a benefit.
#2 Baking soda is Sodium Bicarbonate, which is mostly carbonate and only a small amount of sodium. Noy by any stretch is baking soda mostly sodium. It is unlikely that the spinach would absorb quantities capable of helping you much, and even if it did. the process would be painfully slow, and you would be limited in your ability to do water changes. It is unlikely that your fish could consume enough baking soda blanched spinich to counteract good maintenance.
#3 baking soda is a viable way to raise PH, but it is fast and therefore should be used with caution. Unlike CaCo3 the Baking soda will raise well beyond what is desired for your fish. I do not know the limits to what it will do, but I haven't found them even when mixing concentrates to dose my tank.
#4. Salt For anyone who is confused is NaCl, and although baking soda and Salt both contain Sodium they are not really that similar as chemical compounds. That would be about the same as saying Calcium Chloride (limestone) and Sodium Cloride (salt) are simlar compounds because they both contain Clride.
Now since you are talking about cichlids, (I am still assuming African) then as with most fish the Ph is not as critical as the solids levels in the water. GH is a decent indicator of solids (far from perfect but still useable) If you don't want to use pre-made cichlid salts (not to be confused with Table salt in it's variuos forms) then concentrate on Calcium and magnesium levels in cunjunction with Kh levels. The CaCO3 will add a bit of calcium, but stops dissolving at higher Ph levels, so CaCl (Ice melter) or Ca2SO4 will increase calcium, and MgSO4 (epsom Salts) will increase magnesium. Cichlid salts as packaged are primarily these mineral salts with additional trace elements. it isn't too difficult to duplicate the rift lakes well enough with your own mix.
I am by no means a cichlid expert or a rift lake expert, but do have some experience with the chemical make-ups of hard water including the rift lakes. Others Like RTR with actual experience may be able to add to or correct this information.
Dave
On another current thread on this board I went through the chemistry to refute the local babbler's saying that "sodium bicarbonate is mostly sodium". I do not intend to spend the rest of my life refuting idiotic advice over and over again. If anyone wants to follow his suggestions and actually pays attention to him, good luck to them and to their fish.
I'm no cichlid expert but can't you buy rift lake salts that will help with pH and TDS?
Again I would caution playing with water chemistry unless you are willing to do the work long term. Changing pH constantly will be more harmful in the long run than a stable slightly off pH. Test kits will be a must, pH, gh and kh.
Again I would caution playing with water chemistry unless you are willing to do the work long term. Changing pH constantly will be more harmful in the long run than a stable slightly off pH. Test kits will be a must, pH, gh and kh.
interesting. the thing about blanching was that you would be putting a small amount in regularily instead of not @ all. also Spinach has high ph thanks for elaborating RTR seems to have overdone the helpful thing.Once idiots have their questions answered they move on ,so RTR your always going to be in this situation until you move on yourself helpy. Your saying it was easier to type all that negative banter than type in a url or refference to the page you suggested, or move onto the next thread,face it you can't get enough of the newbies .They make you feel superior cheif.
If everyone was as helpful as RTR no one would even sign up. I can get that from my mother,I don't have to take it from herdaveedka said:
Telecubby,
I realise that you are here only to cause trouble and confuse folks trying to learn. But just in case you should actually decide to have a change of heart and learn something for yourself. Here some additional thoughts.
The tank will still require maintenance, the tap water would still be low Kh and water changes combined with natural Kh consumption would probably negate any little bit of kh you might add via this method. If you have some actual fact or data or refence material that proves otherwise please share so we can all learn. If you read the responses, there are several suggestions given on how to increase Kh/Ph, all of which are tested proven and viable. So the comment about not at all is irrelevant to this discussion.
Dave
I realise that you are here only to cause trouble and confuse folks trying to learn. But just in case you should actually decide to have a change of heart and learn something for yourself. Here some additional thoughts.
Given the amount of spinich that cichlids would eat, and the amount of water that they require to live it would seem impossible to actually contribute enough spinach or baking soda to really have an effect on PH.
The tank will still require maintenance, the tap water would still be low Kh and water changes combined with natural Kh consumption would probably negate any little bit of kh you might add via this method. If you have some actual fact or data or refence material that proves otherwise please share so we can all learn. If you read the responses, there are several suggestions given on how to increase Kh/Ph, all of which are tested proven and viable. So the comment about not at all is irrelevant to this discussion.
Dave
when you start off trying to explain something rather obscure like this it makes it harder to understand. Your the expert, why are you both pointing your fingers @ me.
ph works for people too & it's not a quick fix,it takes time & they even have pills to help do this but when you go & drink a pop you are putting yourself back 17 pills & you can only take 3 a day .you don't have to make it harder than it already is by insinuating things about me or suggesting I can't learn.It doesn't take much of that for people to just say oh fudge it.You can't just flush all your problems down the toilet
