The ole evil buffer product question
- Thread starter Karlsbad
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Yeah, I understand it for pH probes/electrodes, and I follow the reasoning that without buffer the pH would be unstable. But what about pH indicators, say, bromothymol blue which changes colours around pH 7?
I suppose the phrasing of my question should have been: when you say that you "can't" do a pH reading, do you mean that you can't get one that would be a useful reading due to the lack of buffer, or physically can't? I know that pH probes cannot, but since most hobbists don't have pH probes, I was thinking more along the lines of pH indicators.
I suppose the phrasing of my question should have been: when you say that you "can't" do a pH reading, do you mean that you can't get one that would be a useful reading due to the lack of buffer, or physically can't? I know that pH probes cannot, but since most hobbists don't have pH probes, I was thinking more along the lines of pH indicators.
You get meaningless numbers from high purity water other than by electrical measures. Why would anyone try if the "data" is meaningless? Far worse than not measuring is measuring something which cannot provide a useful result. Bad data is not better than no data, as it can be misleading.
Yup, agreed about that. Thanks for clearing that up. I thought that I was missing something big.
Okay, I've gotten more confused as I've watched this thread. If I'm getting this right, and I'm not a water rocket scientist, The buffering is what keeps the ph stable. Is my adding the 10% tap water keeping the ph stable? Does the tap water have the buffering agents I need? I used to use bottled water all the time at my last house because of the water, and never added tap water I did add RO right there also. Was I in danger of a major ph swing? I take it the RO right is not adding the proper buffering agents?
Most people might think that the ph doesn't effect a fishes behavior but I beg to differ. I had to replace my RO stystem and had to use tap water for about a month. In that time my arowana tried to kill himself at least 4 times. He damaged himself pretty bad. He's much better now, but at the time of using the tap water the ph rose to 8.0. Since going back to the RO and getting the ph back to 7.0-7.2 he has calmed down 10 fold. I understand that most species don't care about ph but it appears this big dog does. Even my oscars don't seem to be as aggresive lately.
RTR, is there any good reading material that I can read to help get me to understand all this better?
Most people might think that the ph doesn't effect a fishes behavior but I beg to differ. I had to replace my RO stystem and had to use tap water for about a month. In that time my arowana tried to kill himself at least 4 times. He damaged himself pretty bad. He's much better now, but at the time of using the tap water the ph rose to 8.0. Since going back to the RO and getting the ph back to 7.0-7.2 he has calmed down 10 fold. I understand that most species don't care about ph but it appears this big dog does. Even my oscars don't seem to be as aggresive lately.
RTR, is there any good reading material that I can read to help get me to understand all this better?
travelinman what is the ph of the water out of your RO system after it sits for a couple of hours? My understanding is that RO right gives you hardness(buffering) which would allow ph to be stable. I think there's also some factor that pH is not linear so maybe its that your 8.0+ tap water dilluted by 90% causes your 7.2 solution?
You know I've noticed that some people refer to buffer products as pH adjusting products, and some refer to buffer as trace element products such as RO right or Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Electro Right.
You know I've noticed that some people refer to buffer products as pH adjusting products, and some refer to buffer as trace element products such as RO right or Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Electro Right.
For measurement of pH in high purity water, you would need a laboratory handbook, and it does require some chemistry/physics background. Thry the local library research desk and they can likely get you a loner from an area university.
For a crude first view of pH and alkalinity, try:
http://www.tomgriffin.com/aquasource/hardwater.shtml
but that may not be what you want, and it is not light reading.
For a crude first view of pH and alkalinity, try:
http://www.tomgriffin.com/aquasource/hardwater.shtml
but that may not be what you want, and it is not light reading.
Well, from what I've seen you guys saying, I can't get a true ph reading from RO water. However, Going by the numbers that I do, 90% RO 10% tap and knowing that I add RO right, which will not change ph, I think, Then I would say the RO puts out a 6.8-7.0 ph. My ph at my old house was 6.8. I'm adding some tap water here and it's a bit higher at 7.2. The water here is pretty hard also, but not as bad as my old house.
RTR, I'll take a look at the material tomorrow. As much as I have invested in these tanks it's in my best intrest to understand this better, especially because of the fact of using RO water. Not light reading? Have you ever read a Clancy novel? LOL!! I do all the time.
RTR, I'll take a look at the material tomorrow. As much as I have invested in these tanks it's in my best intrest to understand this better, especially because of the fact of using RO water. Not light reading? Have you ever read a Clancy novel? LOL!! I do all the time.
At least Clancy does not include chemical formulae, but he does deal with balances and equilibria. 
