This is all a little to confusing...

[OrionGirl]

Here's my advice on starting, for what it's worth.

Spend some time in the fish store, or with a good book with lots of pictures. Make a list of the animals--fish, corals, shrimp, crabs, snails, whatever--that you want to keep. Research them. Pare the list down to the critical animals that you must have AND can support--exclude anything that gets bigger than you can support, has food requirements you can't keep, or will make a lunch out of everything else you want.

Then, pick the largest size tank you need to meet those animals needs. Want a volitan lion? That means at least 100 gallons, and more will be better. Want a pair of percula clowns? A 30 will be big enough, but more work to keep stable. In general, bigger will be better.

Decide what filtration method you want to use. Freak out about the thought of worms and snails and crabs? Don't plan on having live rock and a cleaner crew. Hate cleaning filters regularly? Make sure you have access and funds to get good live rock. Pick the equipment based on logic--if you want corals, you must have the right lighting. Then, with this list in hand, talk with us. We'll let you know our opinions-- based on personal experience with some studies to support those opinions--and you can decide what is logical. Understand that no one here gets a profit from your expenses, and most of us will try to prevent you from making the same mistakes that we did.

But--and this is the most important lesson--realize that this hobby is not an overnight thing. The tank setup, researching and building up the occupants, and caring for them, takes a certain amount of time, and loads of patience. Yes, it can be frustrating in the short term. If that saves headaches and work in the long run, it is worth it. Consider the last big dollar purchase you made--a car, maybe. Did you just walk in to the dealer, glance at the cars they had, and buy one? Unlikely. Even if you didn't research in advance, even if you didn't window shop a few times, you probably at least got in the car, took it for a test drive, kicked the tires. Well, setting up a good marine tank is similar (though kicking the tank probably won't help ) in that you need to look around, see what meets your needs, and plan.

 

[Greg J]

if you want corals, you must have the right lighting.

Can lighting be upgraded later on, and corals added at that point. Or if you want corals do you need to start with them from the get go?

. . .and Thanks, this site has been quite helpful in just the few days since I found it.

 

[OrionGirl]

Lighting can be upgraded at any time. Honestly though, if you want corals, it's cheaper to start out with the right lighting. I started with a NO strip light. Put on 110 W, 2 bulb VHO ballast. Bumped up to ~ 400 W, 4 bulb VHO ballast in 6 monhts. Finally bought 2 400 W MH, along with the 2 bulb VHO for actinics. And it's made a huge, dramatic difference--I'm considering upping the FO tank to MH, though more likely only a 150W bulb, and will be putting MH on my nano tank during it's next upgrade.

The upgrading isn't a pain, but there's about $500 worth of ballasts and bulbs that I could have saved if I'd been willing to spend $700 the first round.

 

[redpaulhus]

OrionGirl pretty much summed up my thoughts, especially on deciding "who" before "what".

another thought - aquariums are like cookies.
everybody has a favorite recipe. Some recipes are easier, some harder. most taste pretty good, some don't. If you follow a good recipe carefully, you may not need more than a cursory understanding of why you are doing what you are doing. But if you start to mix parts of different recipes together, you better know the how's and why's or your going to get a nasty smelly surprise. If you just take the chocolate chips from one recipe, the egg from another, and the oatmeal and raisins from a third, you get an odd omelete rather than cookies !

Its the same with marine fishkeeping - the "fish only" approach requires certain hardware and certain maintainence, but it has been around for decades. The "fish only with live rock" approach needs less hardware, and possibly less maintainence, but requires a bit more initial $$. "reef" has its own benefits (like live corals, anemones, etc) but balancing nutrient-poor water and high quality lighting can be tricky if you don't plan plan plan ahead.

Personally I own a number of marine and FW tanks, and maintain some more, and work part time in a LFS. I've used all of the approaches mentioned above - (FO, FOWLR, Reef). I've used alot of the hardware mentioned in this thread (Fluval, seaclone, remora).
I've found that For Me canister filters meant high nitrates and lots of water changes, and have been regulated to the occasional Fish-only system (ditto wet/dry filters). FOWLR systems - at least 1lb per gallon live rock, a shallow sand bed in the main tank, a refugium with macro algae and a DSB, and a skimmer that pulls consistant gunk, and no mechanical filter at all - have been the easiest systems to maintain.
What do I mean by easy ? High water quality (low levels of nitrate and dissolved organics), no nuicesance algae (2+ years), no disease outbreaks, no fish deaths.
My Reef is setup similarly but with high lighting. It is similarly easy, although I do slightly more frequent water changes.

I also tend to cycle my tank with liverock, rather than adding it later (which can sometimes cause problems).

Grab a few good books (Fenner, Tullock, etc) and you'll find alot of good information to make decisions. As was mentioned earlier - try to get advice from people who are not selling you something
And no matter where you find information or opinions - always try to get more than one. Never assume I or anybody else is right, always look for verification from a different source.

I've used seaclones, and I think they (or any similar skimmer) are much better than no skimmer - but I wouldn't use them in a heavily stocked tank, or with delicate animals like corals (then I'd use the $163 Remora). The new SeaClones have incorporated alot of the mods that people were performing to make the old SeaClones work better.

Last thought - I know I'd personally never sell anyone a canister filter or UG filter (or even UV filter) for a SW tank, but I wouldn't be shocked to find one on a system I've been asked to service. While they are far from state of the art or "in", they can work, as long as you understand their pros and cons.

 

[dnajarro]

Hey thanks for the very informative reply I'm Curious though... What Kind of Filter would you recomend for a SW fish tank??

 

[TKOS]

Many people tahtw ant a reef type tank use LR and LS as their filter. The bacteria lives on the pourous surfaces and a cleaning crew of inverts also helps (hermits, snails, shrimp). With this approach you need a good strong current that can be provided by either powerhead pumps (submergable pumps) and filters without filter media in them. A canister filter can still be useful as a source of water movement, and without filter media in them they can provide much greater current then if the water has to flow through bioballs, and sponges etc..

As with any fish tank, the less cycling you do after the fish arrive, the better the fish (and inverts) will survive. There are many methods for cycling a tank. The shrimp method is one, pure ammonia is another, and uncured live rock is becoming popular as well.