This might start some contraversy but...

[Gian krlo]

re:

YOU PEOPLE ARE SO MEAN! i hate when people act like this, instead of insulting him you just have to tell him, im with ya or im not with ya... this is the cause of this world...luvmykribs i didnt know you were like this but im with ya but not at all, cause i think that it is not alright to do this but is his problem so DONT GET MAD ABOUT IT! :mad2:

hope you suceed with your experiment managuay86, it is really interesting :laugh:

 

[sumthin fishy]

There lies the difference between those of us who care for fish(no matter who's tank they are in) and those of you who feel they are disposable novelties deserving of torture for your own pleasure.

 

[plah831]

hope you suceed with your experiment managuay86, it is really interesting

It's not interesting because anyone with sense will tell you how it will end. Badly, for all fish involved.

Also, you posted that video of the big cichlids fighting in an overstocked tank that is way too small for all of them. Plus there are small fish in there with huge ones, which is never a good idea.

 

[Gian krlo]

re:

mmm about the video is true that tank is overstocked n about the experiment i was joking is not interesting cause it involve lifes :duh:

 

[Emg]

SF.......a person can still express thier disaggreement with a situation without making it a personal attack. No one is going to change anybodies mind about anything by lobbing granades at them anytime they do something others don't like.

That's pretty judgmental and makes the attacker look like a knowitall SOB...not saying that you or anyone here is that...but it sure comes off that way...sorry. :huh:

 

[managuay86]

ok i repeat for the people who have a little compassion towards my thread thanks and to the rest of you.. you say you dislike this "experiment" because these two fish were not ment to live with each other. ok lets break it down step by step. cichlids can tolerate and in fact live in brackish water as can most other freshwater fish... Damsels can live in a lower salinity environment. Putting cichlids or any other freshwater fish in saltier water will greatly reduce the risk of catching any diseases. Putting marine fish in a lower salinity environment can also greatly reduce the risk of diseases. OK my cichlids have been living in a borderline marine environment for the past months and a half and tell me why they went from dull 1.5 inch cichlids to bright and beautiful 3 inch fish. they have never succum to any parasites after i convertet them. I have had these fish for about 4 months now my frend gave me a texas and unfortunatly it had ich which it transfered to all my other fish. I dont like using medications becuz it isnt natural. So i desided to raise the temp to about 82 and add a little bit of marine salt because it is more affective then just aquarium salt. (I have treated fish with marine salt before and it works a lot fastr than aquarium salt.) well after a week i checked the salinity level and it was at 1.008. which amazed me. they were all healthy and fine, in fact they were a lot healthier than before. I knew cihclids could handle brackish water but not all the way up to .008. so from there on end i decided to add a little more marine salt every day for the next month and here I am now. Adding the damsel was something that struck me after I had the salt level at .016. I have said all I can say and i also have a video of my fish it isnt the best quality but it is enough to see everything.

 

[plah831]

Putting cichlids or any other freshwater fish in saltier water will greatly reduce the risk of catching any diseases. Putting marine fish in a lower salinity environment can also greatly reduce the risk of diseases.

quote me a citation from the primary scientific literature that states that. those two things will reduce stress IN THE SHORT TERM because you are putting them in situations where their surrounding more closely match the salinities of their tissues. however, in the long run, it messes up their natural osmoregulatory tendencies. if you don't know what osmoregulation is, look it up.

i personally worked in a fish physiology lab where my advisor, Dr. Joe Cech, a well-known fish ecophysiologist, studied the histology of osmoregulation. I myself conducted my own study of salinity preference in juvenile Sacramento perch under stress. My colleague, Brian Sardella, studies tilapia (yes, a cichlid) in hypersaline conditions and they exhibit lower growth, fertility, and life spans. In short, they are not thriving!!!!!!!

Look it up: Physiological, biochemical and morphological indicators of osmoregulatory stress in `California' Mozambique tilapia (Oreochromis mossambicus x O. urolepis hornorum) exposed to hypersaline water

Brian A. Sardella1,*, Victoria Matey2, Jill Cooper3, Richard J. Gonzalez3 and Colin J. Brauner1

Journal of Experimental Biology 207, 1399-1413 (2004)

 

[Mantas]

What's The Problem?

I'm new to this forum but I just wonder why people are so hostile...From his posts so far the fish seem to be doing well, it's not like he's let them get to the point where the fish are showing ill effects and he's killing them on purpose...he's experimenting out of curiosity which isn't on the same level as torturing his fish for his amusement...he's kept track of the salinity and water quality and visual inspections of the fish to see if are feeding/behaving normally....it's not like he's got these fish barely breathing and shedding skin and he's just attempting to see how long they will live....while I personally wouldn't attempt to do this and I do see valid points from the people who hold the opposite opinions, the personal attacks are a bit much...maybe he's on to something, I'm sure at one point in time people scoffed at the idea that fish could be kept in tanks in the average person's home...and if he's making the whole thing up just to get a reaction, he certainly got what he wanted which I guess alot of people on here are predictable...just a thought...

 

[managuay86]

i personally worked in a fish physiology lab where my advisor, Dr. Joe Cech, a well-known fish ecophysiologist, studied the histology of osmoregulation. I myself conducted my own study of salinity preference in juvenile Sacramento perch under stress. My colleague, Brian Sardella, studies tilapia (yes, a cichlid) in hypersaline conditions and they exhibit lower growth, fertility, and life spans. In short, they are not thriving!!!!!!!

and correct me if im wrong but isnt a tilapia an african cichlid? and a sacramento perch is a type of sunfish/panfish. and also I should be calling you cruel and inhumane because you did the same thing im doing right now... so does it make it ok because you have it published and a big scientific name on it and im a hated SOB because im doing it at home??? if so then all the rest of you guys are hypocrits. IF you really look at it...he is "messing with life" just the same as me... anywayIm sure most of the people that are bashin on me have never even tryied it and only go by word of mouth. PLah is an exception but its still not strong enough proof because it doesnt involve the same fish and/or environment.... thank you.

 

[sumthin fishy]

SF.......a person can still express thier disaggreement with a situation without making it a personal attack. No one is going to change anybodies mind about anything by lobbing granades at them anytime they do something others don't like.

That's pretty judgmental and makes the attacker look like a knowitall SOB...not saying that you or anyone here is that...but it sure comes off that way...sorry. :huh:

Not sure how i got singled out in that. I did ask for any scientific procedures/proof on more than one occasion, and that was not provided. Even now that some of his endeavor has been explained I still find it to be wrong. I may have had even a slight bit of respect for it had he used 20 tanks with controll groups (tanks with fish in thier natural conditions), test groups, and backup tanks for moving the fish to at the first sign of a problem. Possbliy even yet more tanks to find the effects of reaclimating them to thier proper water conditions. It appears he may have done some research but I highly doubt he has the capacity to do anything good with his findings. When the fish die, do you have the facilities to conduct autopsies? Will you be able to test the salinity of the fishs' tissues? (here I go again asking questions that will likely not be answered, and ill prbably going to get ragged on for it again...aor mabey its what comes next that will **** y'all off)

I got a puppy a few months ago and put it in my hot tub. Its been there this whole time and it's still alive so it must be thriving! See i figure dogs swim sometimes and wanted to see if they could swim thier whole lives. The really neat thing is that the food floats so I can just dump it in there and the filter takes out any leftovers!