Thoughts on returning fish when they get too big

[firefly]

THanks for all the replies, and I do apologize if this topic has been ranted and ranted about and then hashed to death some more. I was just reading a bunch of posts where people were being told their tanks were overstocked, and the fish would get too big for their tanks, and the replies were all "I know, but it won't happen for a while, they are getting upgraded soon, and when they outgrow that I'll just return them" and it got to me. Not to mention that I had someone come in the store recently and buy three bala sharks for a 29g tank. I explained about their large size (and need for schooling) and that they would quickly outgrow the 29g. I had to sell him the fish though (if it were a 10g, I could have refused I bet). He muttered under his breath (while eye rolling) maybe he should just stop getting fish here if it's going to be THIS way every time. Well, I don't always know the highly experienced fishkeepers from the novices (though after asking a few questions I can usually tell, and I obviously know the regulars), and he was either upset that I was asking silly questions of someone who knows all about fishkeeping, or he was upset that I was giving him grief about what he wanted to do with his tank. Most of the time, if it's a true novice, they are happy to have the info to make better choices. And, most of the time if it is a truly experienced fishkeeper, who cares about their fish, they are glad I ask the questions, because they know the newbies will get good advice too. ANd they also know what sorts of things newbies may try to do with fish. (like put koi in a bowl--I kid you not, we've had people that want to do that. We can refuse to sell koi for anything but a pond.) It's the ones in between, that think they know it all, and don't want to be told otherwise that get upset. so thanks for reading and responding.

Emily

 

[FisheyLisa]

I have never seen a rant specifically on returning fish, glad you posted it. I agree that when you take on an animal, you should have researched first, bought appropriate stuff, have future plans, and the life of that fish is what you are responsible for. It seems to me that quite a few people in this world don't like being responsible for their actions, they like to find blame because they didn't research, and they pon their responsibilities off on others. More angering, it's not done only with fish.

Personally I enjoy getting information from lfs's, reading about stuff online, etc. It is so irresponsible to have a life (a fish) and ruin that life because you can't figure how to take care of it.

It is nice to read on here that other's don't believe returning a fish is the first and best option. Thanks for bringing it up!!

Lisa

 

[zazz]

well, A Lot of it is about money;
ever adopt a pet from a (not for profit) shelter?
They require everything from the petmeetings, to vet checks to written permission of landlords.
Pet stores, on the other hand will often buy puppies and kittens from whoever brings them in and sell them to whomever has the cash.
Then again, The rest of it is about attitude.
While i have never heard some one think they could just return a cat or dog to a pet store when it got too big, I have seen people bring their pets to shelters for equally poor reasons.
And, yes, those people do seem to get annoyed if you make any attempt to suggest that there may be a better way.
It must be very frustrating to be a conscientious pet store employee, cought between the profit motive from above, and the irresponsible attitude from some customers.
I say, rant all you want.
Purple, Your argument makes sense to me up to a point. Even 'euthanizing' a fish Might be more responsible than returning it to a store. Wouldn't it be better, though if the created market for these fish just kind of dried up? In other words, if only people with the capacity for these fish were buying them?
better from the animals point of view at least.

 

[windeindoiel]

I'm glad to hear that there are pet stores that just don't sell fish that get large. Something inside just hurts when I walk into all these pet stores and see tanks full of arowanas and gars and oscars and plec's and I know that not all of them will be going to a good responsible home.

What really drives me nuts is when the employees at pet stores refuse to listen when you correct them. At one store they have flounders and when I asked about them she said they were good community fish who ate flake food and stayed as small as they were there (1"). I did some research and found out otherwise, so I thought I'd pass it along, and she yelled at me! She pretty much insisted she was right and didn't seem to care much. So I've decided I don't get crickets there anymore.

I'm just glad that there are people out there who care about where the fish are going and make sure they know what they're talking about and tell the customers.

I don't agree with returning fish either, or keeping it in a way too small tank like lots of people do. I think buying a fish you know is going to get to big with plans of giving away or euthanizing the fish is really irresponsible (same goes with all pets). They are alive and you can't just throw life away when you're quite finished with it.

 

[Debra Mark]

Our fish are not just inanimate objects or throw-away pets....they become members of our family! After 25 years, I could never get rid of our Pacu. We built our latest tank to accomodate him.

 

[African Dick]

I say screw it. I currently have 2 convicts (mating pair), 8 exodons, 1 small red devil, common pleco, 1 pictus cat, and a raphael in my 55 gallon. My tank has massive filtration, and everything seems fine and has been this way for months. I realize the red devil will outgrow everything and that is fine.

 

[firefly]

Thanks again for all the replies. I'm not really gearing this towards people who CAN and WILL upgrade, or know for a fact they have a home for a big fish to go to. (for example, I know someone who grows comets for her aunts pond. The pond is no where near capacity, and her aunt wants the comets to be larger before they go in. So, she gets some fish for a while, and then they have a home...) I'm also not really gearing this towards the tank that is overstocked by virtue of having too many fish in it (within reason). While that is not ideal, as long as one over filters, and is extra dilligent about water changes etc. then it can be doable. It's also good to look out for aggression issues, but some fish (african cichlids for example) do better in terms of aggression in an overstocked tank, provided filtration and water changes can maintain good water quality. HOwever, one fish in a tank that it cannot even turn around in is not going to be happy. And, many places cannot take such fish because they have no suitable spot for them either. We do carry plecos and oscars. However, these guys can live well in tanks that are not unreasonable to buy. (an oscar in a 55 or 75, a pleco in a 75 or so). We do not stock arowanas, pacus, or large knives, because it is unreasonable to expect anyone to have a tank large enough for a 40" fish. Even a 20" fish is pushing it. (although these fish are available for us to order, and some of our stores probably do stock them....) Even though I work at a chain, we care about the animals and one of the top priorities is to make sure the animals go to a good home. While this is often stressed more for animals other than fish, there are many things stressed about fish too. We don't have as much leeway to refuse a sale of fish, but we can in really dire circumstances. (plus, we have a 14 day return policy, so allowing someone to buy 15 neons for a brand new 5g tank would cost us money in dead fish, and make for an unhappy customer when all their fish died...). Yes, the bottom line is important, we do need to make money, but I at least dont' feel like it is the most important piece. Plus, if someone really does fish right, they spend the bulk of their money in the tank set-up anyway. That is the case with just about all our animals, the price of the animal is almost nothing compared to the habitat, food etc. Of course, then we get a bunch of people who don't understand why they need to spend $100 on a cage, lighting, food etc. all for a $10 lizard. (or spend $100 on a 20g tank set-up for about $15 worth of community fish, that they can't even get the same day or all at once). They think the animal should be the most expensive part, but they also think our animals should not cost any more than they do. Sigh.
(btw the major chain pet stores do not sell cats or dogs, but instead provide space in their store for shelters to use to adopt out animals. We also don't sell rabbits, but provide info. to rabbit adoption agencies as well)
Emily

 

[pbecot01]

I think that as fishkeeping becomes more and more popular we will see this problem a little less... but right now the market is demanding these fish to be sold, and people that know better aren't the ones driving it.

When you can walk into a petstore and see two or three common plecs in most of the tanks, and a big tankful of them, you know they have to be selling a lot of these. But even with BIG tanks, most people don't buy more then one of these things if they know anything. Sooner or later you'll see the market shift, and there will be more tanks of rubberlips then commons, no pacus, and only small supplies of balas, irridescents, and tinfoil barbs. Just wait, aquariums are still a pretty young industry to most people... since you don't know anything about them until you try to find out.

 

[ashdavid]

It depends. If I can give it a good home (better than at the fish store) then yes, I think buying a fish I know will get too large for my tank eventually is worth while. At the point the fish becomes to large I think a humane euthanization or tank transplant is far more beneficial and fair to the animal.

I'd rather painlessly kill a fish with clove oil after giving it a good run then suffer it to sub-standard care at the LFS.

Why buy it in the first place if you plan to euthanise it? I respect your opinion but I just can't see the point. I saw a pic in a fish mag the other day here in Japan(among many others that disgusted me), it had an arapama housed in a 7'L*3'W*2'H, the fish was about 4-5' long, whats with that? There was another pic of an arapama in a 5'L*2'W*2'H ,the fish was about 3-4', and in both cases they had no intentions to move the fish into a suitable tank. That is what is called cruelty to animals.

 

[StreetCypher]

Ohh, while we're talking about pimas, these are some pics of a MONSTER 3000g tank in a BAR in Japan!
Hey Ashdavid, i know exactly which pic you're talking about, but i can;t find it!