Too much Prime?

C

cawaltons

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Jan 8, 2005
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OK, we are almost done with antibiotics and am still trying to figure out what caused the fin rot in my fish since all of our readings were good (as per my tests and confirmed by LFS) except that the pH could be a little high at times. We were doing regular weekly water changes. I am wondering if that is the problem. We are using Prime as dechlorinator. The bottle says to se 1 capful for each 50 gallons of new water. We are adding water in 2 gallon increments -- 4 to 6 gallons per water change. The bottle says that for smaller doses, each cap thread is approx. 1 mL. So, we've been adding about one cap thread of Prime to each bucket. Then, we started just pouring one cap thread and putting a few drops in each bucket.

Could there be too much Prime? Could this be what was making my pleco and betta vulnerable to fin rot?
 
test info

By the way, we have been using Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc. Freshwater Master Test Kit.

Ammonia 0 ppm (as confirmed by the Seachem Ammonia Alert)
pH 6.8 - 6.6
Nitrite 0 ppm
Nitrate 0 ppm

One more thing -- our Coral Life digital thermometer says the water is at about 79 F. For our water changes, we use an infrared thermometer (like a laser gun -- hee!). I first measure the water in the tank and it says it is 82 F. We then use the same IR thermometer to measure the water in the bucket and get it to 82 degrees. Do you think the digital thermometer is trustworthy? What sort of thermometer do you recommend?
 
wow prime must have changed since i last bought a bottle. mine came with a little turkey baster type thing which you used to suck out a very little bit to add to the water.

anyways the bottle says that you can safely increase the dosage by 5 times the normal in case of an emergancy nitirte removal so i dont think that would have caused your problem
 
Nope, I doubt it was Prime. Fni Rot is a bacterial infection. Bacteria are everywhere. Poor water quality or not, so really, your water readings being "fine" is no indicator. You said the pH can swing sometimes, that can stress fish, which lowers their immune system and make them more prone to certain bacteria. Do you know why the pH swings?
 
I think it's because of the wood

I think the pH levels are slightly higher before the water change than after, but I'm not sure. The water is slightly darker before the water change (from the wood), so that may interfere with our ability to read the results since we compare the water in the test tube with colors on a card.

Could tubifex worms or frozen bloodworms be contributing to the fin rot? What about our old, decaying plants from when we had inadequate light?

It seems to me our betta might have had fin rot from the start, but I can't figure out why our pleco would get it too. It's not particularly contagious, right? It would have to be some sort of environmental stress?
 
Well, again it's usually bacterial. I can give someone a bacterial infection if the bacteria is on me. We could both eat some undercooked chicken and get salmonella. So, to say it's not contagious is not quite true. Decaying plant matter, tubifex worms or frozen bloodworms in and of themselves cannot caus fin rot, but decaying plant matter can cause water pollution issues and add to stress, just like overfeeding and old food decaying on a tank bottom could. As I said, bacteria is present all around us at all times. Some of it is good, some of it is bad.
 
OK, so I should stop looking for the cause

Sounds like you are saying that since I have checked for all of the usual suspects in a case of fin rot, I should stop my relentless pursuit of the stressor and just hope for the best!

So, basically, I probably won't be able to figure out what caused the fin rot. Once the meds have done their thing, I can go ahead with my usual maintenance habits and hope for the best. Right?

Just trying to do things "by the book" but the books rarely say cause "unknown." ;)
 
Heh, in the fish business, unknown causes are actually pretty common, unfortunately. Most often it comes down to stress plus X where X equals bacteria, fungus, parasites, tankmates, disease etc. Sometimes you can add secondary infection to X. Some conditions have more than one suspect like hollow belly/wasting, pop eye... really, I could go on a while here. And, since fish only cost a few bucks, most people don't sweat it when one gets ill, so there are obviously no veterinary breakthoughs for small tropical fish like there is for dogs and cats. Basically, keeping stable water limits stress, and therefore limits disease, etc. Kind of a real pain, I know, and not what any fishkeepr wants to deal with, but what it boils down to is that mostly it's hit or miss as hobbyists end up being the ones that treat maladies. I'm not saying don't worry, there is nothing you can do, I would focus on getting that pH stable ASAP and doing frequent water changes. Also, antibiotics can work as well but we have to be careful not to kill the good bacteria. You walk a fine line sometimes in treating tropicals. There are commercial products out there to treat fin rot. Obviously, you chose one of those methods. Just don't beat yourself up too much, I guess is what I am getting to. The cause could have been stress from the pH, or maybe the fish was just a weaker fish, but the fact is, bacteria is out there and fish can't wash their hands with antibacterial soap to avoid catching a bug, they just have to swim in it and hope they're immune system is up to snuff. ;)
 
Prime and other produts like amequel can cause ph swings if you add too much, to water with low kh. Just thought you guys may like to know.
 
Thanks! One last question (for now)

(Good grief -- I'm like a first-time parent here, hovering over my fish, I suppose.)

Do you think I should be testing kH?

Thanks!
 
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