Trying to Re-Establish our Tank = PH Too High

The nitrogens he speaks of are:
ammonia NH4 (?)
Nitrite No2
nitrate No3
As said, the ammonia and nitrite levels should be zero, telling us they are acceptable means little or nothing to us. We have already estabilished that you may have recieved some less than accurate advice from Petsmart, so until we know what you or they consider acceptable we really don't know much.
It is very common to get flawed advice from well intentioned pet store employees. many do not know any more than what they have read on the products they sell, and all of those products are not necessarily the best solution, some are not even close to being a good solution as with the Ph modifier you have already tried. This does not mena you should quit listenng to them, only that you should research well before deciding what to do. One of the reasons the nitrogen is so important is that in improper levels it can effect PH to some degree, it would also be amuch more logical explanation for your fish deaths, as PH is usually only the culprit when ther have been drastic swings over a short period of time.
Dave
 
"The only other tests available are Ammonia and Nitrite...Both of which have always been within acceptable ranges."

It would be very unlikely my newly set-up tank /water would have any unacceptable ammonia level, as well for the Nitrites.

I tested them again for you values are as folows:

Ammonia = 0 ppm = "Acceptable"
Nitrite = 0 ppm = "Acceptable"

Petco - By far one of my less reliable sources even though they have two guys there that are very knowledgable. Of course I only ever take anyone's advice with reserve, keep the good and discard the rest. At least they tried to addres my problem of HIGH PH.

We have two live fish for about 4-6 weeks now and we will continue to add more. We will chaulk up the dying fish to our attempts to lower the PH which probably resulted in shock.

I initially filled the tank with higher quality water than available to the general public via our personal deep well and I'm sure it will make a great home for our fish as it has in the past.

Thanks all for the replies....I still have no answers really to the questions I asked in my first post but that's the way it goes sometimes. :)
 
Your pH really isn't too high. With a KH of 7degrees, that's about the pH you would expect to find. I suspect that your fish deaths may be attributed to acclimatization or the pH rollercoaster. The water in the fish store is likely closer to 7, or at least a much different pH. Ask the folks at the store you get your fish from the pH and KH of the tank the fish came from. It's not an unreasonable request and will help you guage the gap you need to cary your fish across.

If you do want to decrease your pH you have 3 options:
Inject CO2 and keep the levels constant (relatively speaking), if you target to about 20ppm, you'll bring your pH down to 7.

Add peat to your filter, this will decrease KH and acidify your water. However, you'll need to keep the peat relatively fresh or you'll get that same pH bouncing you've been observing.

Finally, you can mix your tap with distilled or reverse osmosis water. This will decrease the hardness significantly. Start doing so at water change and mix in about 1g RO/DI for every 2g tap. Then gradually work your way up to about 2-3g RO/DI per gallon tap. At 3/1 RO/tap you should get a pH around 7.5, but that's just ballpark.

We will always answer any questions as best we can, but we can't give the best answer without knowing the whole situation.
 
BonesNTX
I very clearly answered your first question, in my original reply. Then many of us attempted to help you further by discussing the facts rather than the myths of ph. You can also lower Ph by adding any type of strong acid, but since your fish's interest should be the primary concern, strong acids are out.
Here is the quote from my first reply for your further reveiw.


The Kh of your tapwater is the primary factor in your PH level. Driftwood and peat can both be effective but they are effective by lowering Kh, and thus Ph. with this in mind, a high KH tank will be far more resistive to their effects so it ends up being frustration more than anything. The only two highly effective and fairly easy ways to lower Ph IMO are:#1. mix a specific ratio of RO or DI water with your tap to get the desired tank levels. You will have to pretty much do this at all water changes, and keep a very good routine. When mixing, don't add start right or RO right because you are trying to dillute hardness, and those prducts are designed to put hardness into extremely soft/pure water.
#2. CO2 injection as used in planted tanks lowers the PH with very little effect on KH. This is a good way to target desied levels, and stay reasonably stable (not perfectly stable by a long shot) if you have live plants this works great. if you don't it really isn't worth the trouble
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We were literally shooting in the dark on this, no offense intended. No one here knows yet what your knowledge level is, no one knows what advice you have been given by whom. We are not assuming you don't know things, but it isn't safe to assume you do either. We only want to help, and can only do so well, if we have actual real numbers to work with. When you get a Kh kit please let us know the value and that will help a lot with advice. Until then, the general statements given by all are probably aplicable, as they are genral rules and only fail in certain situations.
Dave
 
BonesNTX said:
It would be very unlikely my newly set-up tank /water would have any unacceptable ammonia level, as well for the Nitrites.
Click to expand...

I just wanted to note that a "newly set-up tank" with fish added is the most common cause of high ammonia and nitrite levels. Fish produce ammonia and bacteria turns it into nitrites, then into nitrates. Until the tank is fully cycled and the bacteria is established, you will see high ammonia and nitrite levels. It's just a part of the cycle process that every tank must go through.
 
Argeed, ammonia is going to be present only in a newly set up tank, and never a fully cycled one. My sugestion is that you read the cycling sticky at the top of the forum and understand this process a little better before we start blaming deaths on ph shock or chemical poisioning. I'm sorry that petco has given you false info. I work at one, and try to inform my customers about the proper way to deal with seting up a tank, but many of my accoiates who don't work in the aquatics department just read the lables and go from there. Sadly, there is no training unless you actualy work in that department :sad
 
I had read the "cycling" sticky prior to my original post. Being 15 yrs+ experienced with aquariums I think I know how to do that...but maybe not. I really did not get much info/ understanding from reading that post more than I already had known / practiced.

PH remains high.

Our PETCO guys are pretty knowledgable based upon my experience of other shops.

Still have two happy healthy fish and planning on adding more this week.
 
"We completely drained our 55 gallon aquarium about 3 months ago, replaced the 5 yr old gravel after giving everything a good scrub down. Re-filled the tank with quality well water, allowed the tank time to settle...About 2 weeks with filter and air running. Bought a couple of Angel fish (small/cheap ones) and all appeared OK. Another week goes by and I get a couple of Gouramis (small/cheap ones) and 10 teeny tiny Tetra sized gold fish. (That's gold fish as in fish colored gold....Not Goldfish)

The angel fish died, the little gold fish died and all that are left are the two Gouramis = Happy / Active fish so far..... "



ok if you read the cycle sticky how did you cycle this tank??? did you use an established filter or did you clean that too. It looks like your fish are dying becaues of the cycle that took place with them in there.

as for the ph do you have any shells,crushed coral in the tank? any cement blocks/bricks?I've had ph as high as 8.4 and I was able to aclimate fish to that and they are still living, aclimate them slowly and most fish can live at all kinds of ph. As long as its stable, I wouldn't add any chemicals to the tank you need to know why you have the ph you do and not add anything else till them. I also agree with the options to lower your ph and I would go with the driftwood( for added look to the tank) and then slowly add the RO water as you do water changes.
 
N8DOGG said:
ok if you read the cycle sticky how did you cycle this tank??? did you use an established filter or did you clean that too. It looks like your fish are dying becaues of the cycle that took place with them in there.

as for the ph do you have any shells,crushed coral in the tank? any cement blocks/bricks?I've had ph as high as 8.4 and I was able to aclimate fish to that and they are still living, aclimate them slowly and most fish can live at all kinds of ph. As long as its stable, I wouldn't add any chemicals to the tank you need to know why you have the ph you do and not add anything else till them. I also agree with the options to lower your ph and I would go with the driftwood( for added look to the tank) and then slowly add the RO water as you do water changes.
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Penguin filter was "established in that I used the old medium (rinsed with water) for about 3-4 weeks when the tank had no fish.

As previously stated by myself and others, the fish kill was apparently due to me trying to conform to PETCO's suggestion to lower the PH, as well previously stated I have resolved to leave the PH as is.
Thank you for your reply
 
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BonesNTX said:
Penguin filter was "established in that I used the old medium (rinsed with water) for about 3-4 weeks when the tank had no fish.

As previously stated by myself and others, the fish kill was apparently due to me trying to conform to PETCO's suggestion to lower the PH, as well previously stated I have resolved to leave the PH as is.
Thank you for your reply
Click to expand...


was the media rinsed with tap water? this would kill some of the bacteria that would be needed for the tank and would have caused a miny cycle. Ph swing is harsh on the fish but I'd still like to know if you have any of the above in your tank or if it just comes out of the tap that way. And I didn't see where you said you were going to leave the ph alone and SLOWLY acalimate your new fish to your tank.

"We will chaulk up the dying fish to our attempts to lower the PH which probably resulted in shock."

I guess that means you'll stop trying to add chemicals into your tank?

Do you know what type of rock your well is drilled through/In? limestome will also raise Ph.
 
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