Twilight Zone Tank

Palach

Registered Member
Oct 19, 2009
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I apologize for the vague title, but there's no short way to express the oddity of what's going on in my tank. First, it's a 10 gallon. I have a 90 gal newly re-sealed and waiting for me to be confident that I won't accidentally kill whatever goes in it, but I digress. I want just some tetras and golden otos, but the pH has to come down. Currently, it's around 8, AFTER a half water change with 6.5 rainwater. That in mind, that was before I did a partial water change (maybe 20%) with rainwater which brought it to 8. It just keeps climbing, and I'm not adding tap water, which is confusing me. Is there a possibility that any of the following events are raising the pH?

Secondly, it's planted for now, but no fish. I have a mangrove tree that I'm trying to grow in freshwater (I've read that they can grow in both, let's not debate this) a plant of whom I forget it's name. It's like a cool bush. And some grass. The mangrove tree looks diseased, I've already lost hope with it. The bush-type plant which I wanted originally for it's large coverage is slowly dying. It flowered a couple times (small white, almost like lily pads) and it's browning from the base up and shedding, but the top's still green. It's in near proximity to the mangrove. On the other side of a rock formation, I have the grasses, that are actually growing nicely and spreading. I have small shoots popping up all over the place, and it's thriving. Some of the longer leaves are browning, but otherwise they're fine. So, is it just different tolerances in the species, or did the other plant catch a disease from the mangrove? Also, why is grass thriving in a pH of 8 and up, when I've read somewhere that 7.9 is pushing it for top-end?

Third, I have an invasive species. Randomly, snails appeared. Right now, I count nine. I'm lacking a digital camera, once I get my hands on one, I'll post pictures. They're relatively small, probably about the size of (- ) <-that and they move FAST (relatively) and are highly active. I read another thread about magic snails, and there were some species listed as possibilities (Malaysian something, ram-something, and pond snails) and it closest resembles the shell from the Malaysian one, but it's different enough that I'm confident it's not the same species.

The water with filter running has been there for three months now, and the plants for two, so it's not still cycling. The snails recently appeared, maybe a week or so ago, so they probably piggybacked with a plant as eggs. So to recap, why does my pH keep going up without any additives? Why are half my plants dying and half my plants thriving? And from my descriptions, are my snails hellspawn, or could they possibly be a godsend in helping deal with the dying plants?

Sorry for the long post, thanks in advance!

-Dan
 
1. So to recap, why does my pH keep going up without any additives?
2. Why are half my plants dying and half my plants thriving?
3. And from my descriptions, are my snails hellspawn, or could they possibly be a godsend in helping deal with the dying plants?

Sorry for the long post, thanks in advance!

-Dan

1. I have no idea why the ph is rising. obviously somethings wrong. what substrate is in there? Are there any rocks?

2. Probably due to multiple things. The tree probably won't work out regardless of what you've heard. It might have to do with the temps or it might just be melting due to the new tank.

3. They are/will be a curse. Get an assassin and let him go to work
 
okay here's my analysis.

ph: We need more info to figure this out. What is your substrate? What type of decor do you have? Anything that would increase the KH like a shell or anything?

plants: We really need to know what kind of plant this is. Based on you saying it's 'bushy' and it flowered a small white lilly like flower, I'm betting it's a type of anubia. If it is, you PROBABLY planted it's rhizome and it's rotted. Rhizome plants have to be above ground. you can either tie them to something, or plant them in the substrate but only the roots. The horizantal base of it has to stay above the substrate. IF it's NOT an anubia, we need to determine what it is.

Grass: ph is really not that huge of a deal. 7.9-8, no real diff. If it's growing, be happy :-)

Snail: they probably hitchiked on a plant. They could have come in as little babies and you didn't see them. Malaysian Trumpet Snails are live bearers so it's not likely them. The most common snails are Pond snails, ramshorns, and Malaysian Trumpets. There are a variety of different shell shapes, colors and variations in all of these. Without a pic, it's going to be hard to determine what you have. Pond snails can be annoying, but MTS and ramshorns are pretty handy to have around so I wouldn't worry too much.

Lastly, just because you've had the tank running for a few weeks doesn't mean it's cycled. Maybe you did a fishless cycle and jsut didn't elaborate, but I jsut want to make sure we're clear on this. Cycling is a specific process, not a matter of time passing.
 
@ angyles: To say the tank cycled is that I've done tests to determine the nitrate, nitrite, and ammonia levels are 0 and stay that way. If there's more involved, please tell me.

The substrate is sand. I know somebody's going to flip when I say I grabbed it from the beach, but it's been profusely cleaned. Like, sand-blasting a cracker level of overdone. There's a rock, I'm not sure what it's made of, but it doesn't seem the type to dissolve and drastically alter the pH. As for the snails and the nameless bushy plant, I'll grab a picture as soon as I can find a decent camera.
 
What type of test are you using, liquid or strip?

Snails likely were transported on the plants. Its pretty much a given unless they are treated beforehand. You're either dealing with pond/bladder snails, malaysian trumpet snails (MTS), or ramhorns.
 
Unless you gave the tank a source of ammonia and allowed that ammonia to be processed by bacteria into nitrite and then another type of bacteria to process that nitrite into nitrate then your tank isn't cycled. You could let a tank sit for weeks and not have it cycle unless you give it a source of ammonia. A cycled tank should have a nitrate reading of 5 or above at most times. If you have given the tank a source of ammonia, great, if not, it'll need to be done before you can add fish.

If your tank isn't cycled you can read about it here: http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84598
 
What I've been doing to lower the pH of my tank is mixing in distilled water with tap water. My tap water has a pH of about 8 from the tap and I have to do almost a 50-50 ratio of distilled water to tap water. I filter with peat as well to keep it down. Chances are your tap water has a really high KH, and adding pH 6.5 rainwater doesn't have enough of an effect because of your water's high buffer capacity.

Also having 0 nitrate may mean that the cycle never began in the first place. Did you seed with ammonia? If you did, then you're getting low readings because the plants are eating up all the nitrate. If you didn't, and your cycle never started, that could explain the problem for the larger plants- they may not be getting enough nutrients. I have no idea why the grass would be growing well, though.
 
You say you collected the sand on the beach. Exactly where? If I go to the beaches near me the sand is mostly silica based and has no effect on the pH. In tropical and sub-tropical areas the sand is mostly calcium carbonate from coral reef erosion and will definitely harden and buffer your water against pH drop. Take a sample of the sand and put it in a cup of vinegar. If it bubbles you're fighting a losing battle in trying to lower the pH unless you swap it out. You could pull out the rock and pour a little vinegar on it to see if it's the source of your difficulty.
 
the snails could have come from the sand as well since it was collected outdoors. there are mts type snails almost everywhere
 
Just curious...what looks "diseased" about the mangrove? I have several red mangroves in one of my FW tanks and they are fine. The leaves need to be out of the water.

What kind of lighting are you running? If that's anubias it'll grow in really lo-light conditions, but I wouldn't go below 0.5 wpg. They do well for me in a 75G with 2 32W t8 tubes.
 
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