Undergravel Filters

Good Morning To All! Just a fine Sunday AM!

Let's all remember there are many paths to our varied goals, some rougher than others, and experience can be a great teacher. We can post our experiences and hope they provide value, but there will always be some that will do things differently.

No need to turn this into personal issues. Thanks! :cool:

By the way....I love UGF/RUGF...for FW and SW.
 
You watched his profile for an hour to see how long it took to respond to this thread!? :eek:

I think the moral of the story is that different techniques work for different people. There is no established "right" way to setup and maintain a saltwater reef that makes all other ways wrong. That is part of what makes this hobby so challenging and enjoyable. I'm interested in hearing about everyone's methods, experiences and the results they have obtained using them.
 
jojo22, you don't have to believe anything I say or do, just as I don't have to believe many things I read. We each have our own experiences that sway the decisions we make.
When I post, it is based on my years of experience with the methods I have used, along with some information that I'm obviously not knowledgeable to do for myself but trust the sources like my favorite, Randy Holmes- Farley.
I feel I can comment on UGF systems because I have used them for so many years and they work well, and still do for the many people still using them.
All systems have their limitations, even the most current ones.
I have been in the business/hobby for a long time, long enough to know what the nitrification process is, and it was knowledge aquired in the fresh water hobby more than 50 years ago, but the basics are the same.
When Sprung, Borneman, Shimeck, Holmes-Farley make comments over the last few years, that the process is probably not as we now believe it to be, I accept their words on the matter as they have expertise that I will never match.
As for the time for me to post, I am aging, find it hard to stay awake at a computer, (or tv or read a book for that matter) Some posts I make are maybe 5 hours after I start them.
I DO many times take the time to check out my bookmarks before replying on some topics as I prefer not to ere when posting, and even when I was young, I never had perfect total recall.
I don't have a natural ability for this computer age, and I don't have a natural ability for the written word, so I have to think out what I'm going to say, and I have to make a lot of changes before I post.
Even at that, a very recent post I stuck the word anorexic in for anaerobic and missed it in my proof reading. I have no doubts at all that I miss many things over time.
You condem my losses, yet how many people with other set-ups have not had losses. I did something about it and installed Air conditioning that failed when a $20 dollar contactor seized up while I was away.
To put individuall chillers on ALL of my tanks/containers is cost prohibitive as I would need at least 17 chillers of varying sizes.
Air conditioning was the only effective way to manage it.
When I post, I post to inform people of my experiences, not to tell them this is the way and the only way to do things. I especially post when someone condems something that I know to be wrong based on my experience.
That doesn't mean I want the reader to change his mind about how he/she will do something, but hopefully it will make them aware of just how many things can be misconstrued by uninformed posting. Hopefully they will then be wary and more investigative when looking at other matters.
Sorry to be so long in the tooth, but as I mentioned before, I don't have a gift of writing, I don't know how to say things in short form, and, it takes me a long time to write this.
Please remember, my ways are just that, my ways, and I don't expect anyone to use similar methods unless they have a particular reason for wanting to, but don't crucify them if they do, especially if you haven't tried them yourself for long enough to know. Just explain that in your experience, other ways worked better for you, and perhaps why in your opinion, this was so.
 
ok, i think we all get the picture that all peoples comments are based on their OWN experiences, can we now please draw a line under the comments and bring this thread back in to line to the starting questions..Which were, can he use his current setup with sand...

Niko
 
It will ONLY work if the sand is placed over a matt or something that prevents the sand from filtering down through the filter plate, but still allow water to flow through enough for what ever pump is being utilized.
Nitrates will be a problem if there is insufficient live rock in the system and especially with a cannister filter that will efficiently process ammonia and nitrites, but not nitrates.
Removal of filter material and replacing it with live rock rubble will help somewhat.
As Germanman mentioned, plenums work very well, and this system can be converted to a plenum by sealing up the bottom outlet and having sufficient sand on the UGR plate with a matt of some type to keep it from filtering down.
With another hole drilled in the tank, the pump can be utilized in a closed loop situation that I believe was already mentioned, or, it can be used to allow water to flow to a sump or refugium, and then be returned to the tank. (wouldn't need another hole drilled)
JMO
 
OK at the request of 2 members one being a mod I will let this topic go. I stand by my original statement that I think it would be best to put a cap or plug in the bulkhead at the bottom of the tank and utalise the holes on the sides for either water movement or filtration thru a sump with a sand bed.
 
Thanks for the help. Tell me if this sounds workable. Take a 3/4in tube and run it from the bottom hole to the one of the powerheads, then use the 2 side holes as intake for the Canister filter.


I'm using carbon(?) as the inner canister media and a foam pad around that. Would live rock be better as media?
 
You didn't mention sand or c.c. as sand would still be a problem unless you have a fine enought piece of cloth/material between the UGF plate and the sand, to keep it from sucking down through. With c.c., yes, it would still work like a normal UGF. Better still if you just hook that underside outlet to a sump or refugium though. Then use the power head to return the water from the sump/refugium. The system would not only benefit from anything extra in the way of biological filtration but because the total water in the system has increased, it makes the system as a whole much more forgiving in case of a problem.
IMO, live rock would beat any filtration media you could place in the cannister.
Your cannister filter material can't remove nitrates; live rock will remove nitrates.
Put in the largest piece you can and fill the surrounding area with live rock rubble.
 
not sure how you would work that with the bottom hole??

But to answer your other question yes I would use LR rubble
 
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