unidentified hybrid tetras

honestly was alarmed by your post and if I am misinformed, I would apreciate some redirection. Please provide me with some documentation or literature to support your argument
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Okeydokey,
I'll start with this article, this is directed at cichlids but applies to all fish in general aquaria, the dangers are very real even if its jst some pretty Tetras.
http://www.sydneycichlid.com/old_scp/flowerhorn.html
many more links to arguements about hybridasation can be found by googling say "fish cichlids hybrid" or somesuch, yuo will enough links to various fishkeeping sites/forums to keep you reading for hours.
The danger comes when hybrids are given away, traded, sold or released in to the wild.

Also, get off my back buddy. I didn't buy painted fish and I didn't put them in an uncylced tank. As a matter of fact, I have taken great care in poviding the best environment possible for my fish within my means and I take personal offense to many of the comments you made. Next time you need a boost of confindence to temporarily remedy your erectile dysfunction, ride your rightous high horse somewhere else. In short, stick to the issues pal.
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The painted fish is a great eye opener to cruelty to fish and you should feel the same way about hybrids. I wasn't attacking or saying you were guilty of such, it was a comparison, using a "Painted" "Hybrid". Your here, so you are not in IMO one of the uneducated masses.
But it served the purpose, your now aware of a concern about hybrids...

This isn't a highhorse I'm riding, its true concern about the issue of the damage hybrids can do to pure gene pools. and the damage we do can do to the fish!

Edited, personal comment above was removed. OG

So I'll try to stick to the issue, y'all were discussing some hybrid Tetras and I tried in my offhanded way to warn against trading in hybrid fish....

As long as the fish are humanely aquarium bred and there were no hormones used to acheive their colors it's no different than owning one of the thousands of breeds of dogs or cats out there that you find in peoples homes everyday.
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Fish just as dogs and cats can suffer from genetic defects or disposition to certain physical ailments and disfigurements, when either hybridized improperly line-bred with poor genetics.
Many fish that are hybrids suffer from various forms of defects, deformed spines, mouths, lack of fins, internal organs mis-shapen and others defects which were either intentional or not, which greatly affect these fishes health and lives.
One thing about a hybrid is that usually they are sterile, but sometimes they can breed successfully and you end up with fish that look like a combination of the original parents or more like one or the other. Sometimes its almost impossible to tell them apart from the original species parent...
This is where one of the dangers comes in, "What is that fish?" someone ask, well it sure as heck looks like a Trimac, its sold as a Trimac, but it doesn't breed a true Trimac.... It was a Flowerhorn or ect... Which leads to the current thread we're in, now its "Well it might not be a hybrid, it looks a awful lot like a ?....."

This is a very controversial subject and starts some fiery threads, please research the subject for yourself, there is a very real concern just as for dyed/painted fish, but even more so since we're talking the survival of species.
 
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Could just be a mutation. I think this is more likely since if you have noticed, most fish seem to be rather racist when it comes to their own species. Although I used to watch my verile young male powder blue dwarf gourami unsuccessfully try to court a much larger female pearl gourami. If it is a hybrid, those serpae types of tetras look very similar and probably do interbreed in the wild from time to time. I would have reservations about say a neon and a serpae tetra... if it were possible. I think the only real danger is if they are released into the wild but as responsible aquarists we don't do that. I think I larger danger is inbreeding. Inbreeding and has damaged some lines such as black mollies.
 
Heh, yes, inbreeding is damaging. Actually, from a purely genetic standpoint, hybridization can be a very good thing. Genetic diversity can in fact keep a species going.
 
Ok, first of all, thank you Chile, that is definetely the sort of criticism/discussion I like to see. I also apologize for my brash response. Your former post seemed as though you were on the offensive whereas this most recent post raises some of the more legit issues to be dealt with. I assumed that was what you were aiming for (since I have done the research myself as well), but I wasn't quite sure. In short, thank you for the new post, much more informative and much less aggressive. By the way, that link was not available and I would definetely be interested in reading it. Could you double-check the link and make sure it is correct? Thanks.

As far as the most likely long-forgotten hybrids originally in question; my lfs told me they are a serpae tetra definetely bred with another similar tetra (possibly a black phantom or cardinal?). The reason I excluded this tid-bit of info from my original post is because I didn't want to give anybody any preconcieved notions of what the missing constituent could be and therefore inhibit imagination. The reason I bring it up now; because kissoftheguarmi made a comment about closely related species often inter-breeding. I can't testify to the validity of the comment, but I thought it was interesting to note nonetheless.

It also brings me to my next point. I believe that hybridization used to create fish that have such extreme abnormalities it interferes with their everyday lives is wrong (i.e. fill in your own grotesque goldfish story). On the contrary, if hybridization results in a healthy, unique fish with no compromises to moral stature I say go for it! In fact, this quite possibly could happen in the wild.

I also have to agree with Harlock, particularly on the matters of genetic diversity.

So, this is the first time I have been involved in a real heated AC debate. I hope that at the very least something was learned. The ironic thing is that in the end, Chile and I seem to have more similar sentiments towards this issue than perhaps originally forseen ;)
 
Often hybrids produce sterile offspring, in which case I don't see it as a big problem as long as the buyer knows what they are getting. It does become a real problem when the offspring are able to reproduce however. In the hands of a responsible hobbyist that keeps them isolated from pure strains, it may not become an issue. However, when such hybrids become distributed throughout the hobby and continue to reproduce and/or breed with fish of pure genetic lines it can become difficult to tell a pure species from one with tainted genetics. Also there is the possiblity of undesirable recessive genes surfacing in later generations.

IMO it's best to avoid hybrids, but if someone really wishes to keep them at least be responsible about it. Keep them isolated from closely related species, and don't sell or give them away unless you are positive that the hobbyist they go to will be responsible and keep them isolated as the mutts that they are.
 
Yeah, that one worked, thanks. Good information in that article, but they need an editor. ;)

Also, these hybrids were kept seperate from all other tetras while in the store and there is absolutely no chance that I will be breeding them. I thought I should include that.
 
Heh, yes, inbreeding is damaging. Actually, from a purely genetic standpoint, hybridization can be a very good thing. Genetic diversity can in fact keep a species going.
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Genetic diversity is best achieved with new blood (genes), by diversifying the bloodlines with fish of the same species who have either never bred together, are separated by several generations with new blood added in between and by carefull breeding practices and culling of fry/juvies with growth problems and defects.
 
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