Have you ever tried adding chlorine bleach directly to specimen tank water? That will kill water-bourne pathogens as well. Ammonia and hydrogen peroxide? How about straight iodine? "You should try before comments!?!?"
I think not.
I said it previously in the pH/KH thread; "real life experience" may be practical but never fails to follow the laws of physics, chemistry, and the tendencies of biological systems. Practical experience does not equal promotion of best practices. If you'd like to use the rest of this thread to debate the validity of home-cooking vs. promoting accepted standards of best practice, I (and others) welcome the opportunity.
You state it works for humans... based on what knowledge? For you information, the medical community is now moving away strongly from direct application of bacitracin or any other topical due to rampant bacterial resistance and evidence that it may in fact delay matrix deposition. The stuff is weak and clean wound practice is now receiving the major emphasis. Further, the fact that it works for homo sapien sapiens is absolutely not a basis of argument for any compound working on another species. The reverse is also true (e.g. malachite green).
The facts are:
1) Removing this specimen from the hospital tank each day to apply ointment (as you suggest in your own comments) will cause major stress on this already sad specimen, exacerbate discomfort on application (i.e. pain), and likely do nothing more than pollute the water column. It will unquestionably migrate to affect gill function at the rate of application you recommend.
2) Agree with you that secondary infections in such cases are a significant concern and that even the cleanest of water is not "sterile"; disagree that any water (including hospital tank) can be and that thsi is the primary goal. The reason for daily water changes is not solely to reduce the relative conc. of pathogens; it is to regularly remove DOCs, and the slightest hint of nitrite, ammonia and to ensure nitrogen levels remain extremely low.
3) The photos do not reveal any clear signs of systemic infection. A broad spectrum antibiotic or fungicide may be appropriate AFTER wound healing has progressed to a significant degree (and it has not as of last night). These substances can cause direct burn to open tissue, delay the healing process in certain cases, and require organ clearance (liver and kidney in particular); another source of potential stress on the specimen. There is no reason to initiate any additional treatment until clear signs of secondary infection erupt. Less is always more.
4) "Danomind, what you got to loose?" Answer: the time, energy, attention, and efforts he is already deploying in a noble effort to save this specimen.
I truly appreciate the time/effort of individuals who care to offer advice (especially in cases as severe/urgent as this). If you find adding topical ointment or salt into a FW system helps care for your specimens, great. If you want to share that experience, great. Just don't expect me to not counter with the accepted best practices.
If you truly understand the physics, chemistry, biology, etc as you say you do, no matter how sterile the tank/water may be, it is
bio-active once
fish are added. Thus all that work to knock off pathogens is
meaningless unless kept vacuum sealed tank w/o any life forms.
1. Although risky/stressful, drastic measures (for example, surgery) may be the ONLY option. You would not say no to surgery when it is only an option because you are afraid of possible to negative effects of anesthetics. Would You?
2. Like I said, hospital tank are NEVER sterile once fish is added. Idea is to tried to isolate the fish thus better/closer care/observation can be given such as ICU w/i the hospital. I would never take the children to hospital/doctor's office during Flu Season UNNECESSARILY since such places will harbor more airborne pathogens.
3. When you have minor cut, you
may get an infection when left unaddressed. Especially when receive cuts/injuries from rusty metals, one would make sure to get Tetanus Shot if have not properly vaccinated.
You may not see the infection since pathogens may be microscopic. If an bacterial infection, you would need electronmicroscope to ID the bacteria.
I am not sure the initial condition after the BITE, but it sure seems conditions are getting worse/progressing. Thus with our limited resources, would definitely
apply ointment on open wound/infection so that less chance of contact b/n skin and water. With such open wound,
most likely either bacterial/fungal infections will take hold. Thus Antibiotics will be my choice in order to minimize further progress/development of an infections.
4. All due respect, by just keeping the water clean (free of pathogens: impossible to achieve but can/should be controlled) would not resolve such massive infections.
I do know that everyone post with the best intention to assist.
There are orthodox measures and sometimes UNORTHODOX way to overcome such unfortunate mishaps. After having kept and experienced so many fish and MISHAPS (Over 20,000 G of water), I have came up with many UNORTHODOX Methods with great results when other
precise measures can not be rendered.
Danomind,
One Question?
Does the injury received look same as when first happed or does it seem progressing/getting worse (flesh deteriorating/growth of cotton-like fungi)?
