Mike, the plants won't make any difference if you add them right away. The bio spira will adjust to the amount of ammonia in the tank.
Using Biospira
- Thread starter ShmooBeast
- Start date
Just a caution: If your buying bio-spira froma retailer, make sure you ask them if it was for sure handled correctly. Bio-spira should do exactly what it says. However, i baught some twice from a petstore in my area, and made sure i kept it at appropriate temps while it was in my posession (even in the car on the way home), i even used it asap. Both times it did absolutly nothing.
A lot of retailers (at least in my area) have never even heard of bio-spira, so i assume they arent really familiar with how it should be handled. Probably let it sit out before they stocked it in the refrigerator.
A lot of retailers (at least in my area) have never even heard of bio-spira, so i assume they arent really familiar with how it should be handled. Probably let it sit out before they stocked it in the refrigerator.
ok I feel like a total "NOOB" I went to my LFS tonight and told them I wanted the biospira and and wanted to get started. he assured the biospira was handeled correctly and very rarly do thay get someone who comes in and say it dosent work. but he said I had do a full load of fish with bio spira, so I would have to buy pretty much all the fish I wanted to stock my 72G with tonight with the bio spira otherwise it wouldent work because the bacteria would starve to death if there wasent enough fish to produce enough waste. I asked about buying ammonia and doing biospirra and he said I had to have the full load of fish to go with it, some how I brought home 8 tetra's and a water testing kit.... what should I do? I am really worried if I buy the full load of fish and the biospira dosent work I am outa like 100 bucks atleast.
*also here is the offical link to biospira incase anyone wants it http://www.marineland.com/products/mllabs/ML_biospira.asp
*also here is the offical link to biospira incase anyone wants it http://www.marineland.com/products/mllabs/ML_biospira.asp
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LFSs rarely understand fishless cycling. It is true that you need to add a full bioload to a tank in which you add BIO-Spira. That bioload can come from a natural source, say fish, or from a chemical source, bottle ammonia. There is no difference to the bacteria. Ammonia is ammonia as far as the BIO-Spira is concerned. Now that you have a testnig kit you could have added ammonia to a reading of 5 ppm and then tested ammonia, nitrites and nitrates the next day. If ammonia and nitrites were zero and there were nitrates present at around 10, you'd have been in okay shape. Since fish are now involved it confuses things.HeinekenMike said:
You cannot add that level of ammonia to a tank with fish in it. It is lethal to them. Also, BIO-Spira, while being excellent stuff, doesn't always cycle a tank instantly, or even in a week's time. So, your options are: take the fish back to the LFS, buy ammonia and start adding it within 24 hours of adding the BIO-Spira (safest and allows you to fully stock your tank); buying your total fish load and hoping the BIO-Spira was all good and that you don't end up with a fishy cycle for a few days or weeks (not much fun or very safe and possibly expensive and labor intensive as well as stressful); keeping the 8 fish, testing the BIO-Spira and running the risk of a bacterial die-off that adjusts itself to the bioload of 8 fish, and then adding just a few fish slowly every couple of weeks or so, like you had done a fishy cycle (also safe, but the tank isn't full for a while and you have to test the water for a longer stretch).
To me, the peace of mind of knowing my BIO-Spira is good before I add fish is most appealing. The best case scenario with plain ammonia is you test the water for a couple of days, all the levels are fine and you go back, buy all of your fish and get to enjoy them more because you're not sweating daily water changes (sometimes twice a day). Worst case with BIO-Spira is that it doesn't work and you end up fishy cycling with a full bioload. I can tell you it is hard enough fishy cyling with a reduced bioload, to say nothing of how tedious and likely lethal for your tank's occupants a full bioload cycle would go.
So, there are my thoughts. As I stated when I opened, most LFSs do not understand fishless cycling at all and push for fishy cycles. I really wouldn't expect them to understand testing BIO-Spira with a fishless load either.
ok great, now I just need to find some ammonia, my LFS said he dident sell it where do i get it, and is there a special kind?
Indeed there is. You need plain ammonia. It usually comes in a solution like 10% ammonium hydroxide, or something like that. You want to buy the clear ammonia with no additives. It needs to be pure ammonia. No lemon scent, no surfactants, no color.
Seamist from Wal-Mart is a brand I heard of. Some bottle that simply say Janitorial ammonia work as well. If you have doubts about it, just remember all I said above, and then, shake the bottle. If any bubbles form at the top, they should not be lasting bubbles. That would be indicative of a surfactant in the bottle. So give it a shake and if bubbles last more than a second or two, it's no good for your tank.
HTH
Seamist from Wal-Mart is a brand I heard of. Some bottle that simply say Janitorial ammonia work as well. If you have doubts about it, just remember all I said above, and then, shake the bottle. If any bubbles form at the top, they should not be lasting bubbles. That would be indicative of a surfactant in the bottle. So give it a shake and if bubbles last more than a second or two, it's no good for your tank.
HTH
once I start adding it how many drops will I need for a 72G to get it to 5p, also once its there How long does it normally take biospira to eat the ammonia and get the tank back down to a safe level?
boy your going to hate me, instead of buying the ammonia I put a full bioload of fish in it and some plants, I put 90 Gallons worth of biospirra in immediately after the fish where introduced. I felt very comfortable with buying the biospirra because I talked to the manager at one of my LFS's and he insured me it was handled correctly and that they just got the shipment a few days ago and it went strait from the icepacked refriged shipment to there refrig. I brought it home packed with ice packs (even though it was only a 10 minute drive I didn't want to take any chanchs) and then and only then took it off ice, opened the 3 packages and put it in. I will keep you guys updated on this post if you want on its effects and my ammonia and nitrite levels as a learning tool for future potential buyers, or if all hell breaks lose and it doesn't work - that would be there also. DONT YELL AT ME TO HARD! the LFS had a 50% off on all freshwater fish on stock and the biospirra seemed to good to be true because it was on sale to and thay just got it! :bowing:
ok before I put any fish in the tank ammonia tested 1.5 now its been over 24 hours with all the fish and the bio spirra and it still test 1.5 I guess my question is why did it test 1.5 with no fish at all? and why would it still test 1.5 24+ hours after a full bioload, if the biospira dident work I would expect a ammonia increase, if it did work I would expect a decrease right? maybe my ammonia test is bad?
Firstly, no one will yell at you, but if you end up doing 50% water changes for a week or more on a 72 gallon tank you may be yelling at yourself.HeinekenMike said:
Now then, ammonia being present in tap water isn;t all that uncommon these days. Many water utilities are treating with something called chloramines. It is bonded ammonia and chlorine. It's terrible for fish, The biggest problem with chloramines is that most plain water conditioners do not actually destroy the ammonia, even though the bottle will says that it treats chloramines (and don;t ask my why a company would be so irresponsible as to insinuate something that might kill your stock). Normal water conditioners treat chlorine. When added to a tank with chloramines it kills the chlorine and leaves, you guessed it, ammonia floating in your tank. Not very nice, is it?
The solution is to treat with Amquel or Prime. I know these two will treat not only the chlorine, but also bond with the ammonia to create ammonium, which is non-lethal to fish and stil beneficial to any live plants you may have. I suggest these two brands only because I see their names mentioned more than any others and I have sued both so know they do what they claim to do. I prefer Prime, if that matters to you, as it is very concentrated stuff and seems to be cheaper in the long run.
The problem, as you suggested, may also be your test kit. If your water is chloraminated and you are using Prime or Amquel, but using a Nessler-based test kit, then you are probably getting false results. If you test kit is Salicylate-based then the results may be real, if the test kit is not expired and working correctly. I would test my water, then bring it to the LFS where I purchsed my fish and such and ask them to test it. Most LFS test water for free as a customer courtesy. This way, you can compare results. Honestly, as long as there were any ammonia present in one of my tanks, I would be doing large volume water changes and daily, to twice daily testing, if necessary, to ensure the health of my livestock.
