Very High Ammonia (Please Help...) / Bio Spira Help.

[llee24]

I have a 65 gallon tank with 18 fishes running for about a 2 months.
Filters: Rena Filtra Xp3
Aqua Clear 70
Substrate: Black 3m Color quartz
Rocks: 2 Tuff Stones

Before I added the fishes I had Temp 76, PH 8.0, Ammonia 0, Nitrate 0, and Nitrite 0. After adding fishes couple of days I began to see ammonia rising. I did water changes every other day. Feeding it once a day (no food on the gravel) but the ammonia keeps rising. I am running out of ideas. Everyone tells me differently even the LFS. One tells me to raise the temp to 82 (that didn’t work). Other tells me to put Ammo-Lock, Amquel, Ammo-Chips. I don’t know if these local fish store jus wanted to sell me products. I even added the Aqua clear 70 filter to see if that would get rid of the ammonia, but that didn’t work.

1/29/06 – I did a 50% water change and changed/add the filter media on my xp3. Since the xp3 have 3 compartments.
On the first compartment (Mechanical Filtration) I have 2 of 30ppi Foam and 2of 20 ppi foam.
On the second compartment (Biological Filtration) I have Bio-Chem Stars and Ceramic Rings and on the Third compartment (Chemical Filtration) I have Bio-Chem Zorb and 2 Zeolite Ammonia Remover and Micro-Filtration Pad.

Chemical Added after water change: (1) Ammo Lock, (2) Stress Zyme, (3) Amquel, (4) Chiclid Salt, (5) Proper PH 8.2 and (6) Water Conditioner.

1/31/06 – 50% water Change:
Chemical Added after water change: (1) Ammo Lock, (2) Stress Zyme, (3) Amquel, (4) Chiclid Salt, (5) Proper PH 8.2 and (6) Water Conditioner.

2/2/06 – Tested the water with Aquarium Pharmaceuticals and here are the tests:
PH: 7.6
Ammonia: 8ppm
Nitrate: 0
Nitrite: 0

Water is cloudy. I just added another does of Ammo Lock and Aqua Clear.

2/4/06 - I put in bio spira (no feeding today)

2/5/06 - I tested the water after i put in the bio-spira last nite. The ammonia level is still at 8ppm. I thought that after 24 hour hours that there would be some lower of the ammonia. Am i doing something wrong or do i have to wait? (no feeding today). THis is the first time i am using bio-spira but i don't know if i am doing it right.

I don’t know what else to do. Please help!!! I don’t want my precious to die. I hope it can still survive when I get home.

I feel like taking all the fishes out and cleaning out the tank again, but dunno if that is a good idea. I tested my tap water and there is no ammonia in it. Each time I do water change the ammonia spikes up again.

People tell me the tank is cycling, but I am really not sure if that is true. Please help save my babies…

 

[jadefoodog]

the cloudy parts probably a bacterial bloom

i belive your in a cycle

 

[kay-bee]

Regarding your setup, you mention the tank has been running for two months.

For clarification, how and when did you stock your tank with 18 fish (for example were they all added into the tank 2 months ago or were some added at the start and over two months the population increased in increments?).

What have your ammonia and nitrite levels been like prior to 29 Jan.

If your tank was cycled prior to the fish being added and the ammonia increase manifested itself after 29 Jan, then it would appear that something either killed of a good portion of your beneficial bacteria or your bio-load is larger than your bio-media can presently cope with.

However, I'm suspecting the tank never completed cycling, and so your tank is presently going through the cycling process, since your tank is show zero nitrates (the presence of nitrates are a sure sign that the cycle is at least working). Your tank has yet to experience the nitrite spike.

In a fully cycled tank, products which remove ammonia are entirely unnecessary since that function is performed by an established beneficial bacteria colony (in your case, I'm assessing the colony is still at inadequate strength).

However in this particular situation I'd recommend continue using them in conjuction with daily 25-40% water changes until you ammonia levels are kept at or near 1ppm (it probably won't hurt to start with an initial 50% water change today followed by daily 25-40% changes). I wouldn't recommend removing the fish or cleaning the tank at this point.

The bio-spira will eventually "kick in". It's designed to be added in a tank at or near the same time the fish are. In this current situation, it has to play "catch up" (your ammonia level is already at 8ppm and 18 fish are continuously adding to it via respiration and waste production).

 

[~*LuvMyKribs*~]

I agree with what Kay-bee has said

Make sure to not clean any of your filters! You want to give the bacteria a chance to multiply.

Can you get your hands on a established filter sponge?


-Diana

 

[Gunnie]

What type of ammonia test are you using? If your test is test strips, you are probably getting a bad reading. If you are using the drops, and your color card goes from yellow to orange, your reading is probably false due to using ammo lock and amquel. If you don't have one, get the 2 part ammonia test which has a color card that goes from yellow to green. Then you will have a true reading of the ammonia level in your tank. I'm not sure if you can just buy this test separately (mine is part of my Aquarium Pharmaceuticals master test kit) but you probably can.

As for the bio spira, it is not meant to be used in a tank with already high ammonia or nitrite levels. It will eventually work, but sometimes the "catch up" takes longer than needed for your fish to survive. If you can get the ammonia level down to less than 1 or 2, then I'd say give it some time. If the ammonia continues to stay at lethal levels, and you have any more bio spira left, drain your tank down as low as you can, and do a good gravel vacuum. Refill the tank and immediately add the bio spira. This will give the bio spira a much better chance of maintaining the ammonia and nitrite levels in your tank. I did this with my 100 gal. tank and I never saw ammonia or nitrites again after 24 hours. Also, make sure you are getting your bio spira from a reputable dealer who handles the product properly. You may have just received a dead batch of bacteria.

 

[llee24]

Kay - Bee: I had my tank by using "cycle" in December 1. I stocked all 18 fishes at once on 12/23. There wasn't any ammonia at that time. Then it started to spike in a couple of weeks and now it is at 8.0ppm. I can't even get it down. My nitrate or nitrate never spiked. It has always been at "0".

Gunnie: I am using the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Kit with the 2 step drops ammonia. It turned from yellow to real dark green (8.0ppm).

When running bio spira do i leave my filters running cause my xp3 has 2 zeolite ammonia remover in them and my aquaclear 70 has biomax to remove ammonia.

 

[kay-bee]

Thanks for the clarification. Yeah, you're definately experiencing "New Tank Syndrome". There are probably several stickies on this site which cover it.

There are varying opinions on whether Cycle really works or not. I'll just say that unless you were feeding the empty tank pure ammonia after you added the Cycle and before adding the fish, that product would have be ineffective due to a lack of a food source (ammonia) to 'feed' the required bacteria. Adding fish 3 weeks later will pretty much void any bacteria starter as the bacteria would have all died off by then.

Keep up the water changes to keep the ammonia at or below 1ppm.

Biomax will remove ammonia in that it provides a large surface area for the bacteria to grow (the bacteria will actually remove the ammonia once established). Keep your filters running. What's the temperature of your tank? Youl could probably increase the rate of bacteria reproduction if you take it up to 84F.

It may take a while, but your tank will eventually cycle (hopefully without a loss of fish). After the cycle is completed you don't need to use zeolite or other ammonia-removing chemical filtration. You can replace them with more bio-media.

 

[llee24]

right now my temp is at 82. I will try to keep doin the water change daily thanks kay bee

 

[anonapersona]

Ammo-lock

It often seems that Ammo-lock works all too well. The goldfish area I used to visit called it "Ammo-lock Hell" -- the never ending cycle. Becasue you have never seen nitrites or nitrates, I think you have never even begun to cycle, since the ammonia is totally locked up.

You need to get all the ammonia chips and ammo-lock out of the tank to get the cycle to establish.

I suggest as near to a full water change as you can manage. Like 90%. Mix the dechlorinator in the water as you refill. Watch the temp carefully so the fish don't stress too much.

Then, with all fresh water, you can start again. No ammo-lock, no ammo chips. Just water conditioner. If you intend to use BioSpira, then you ought to use the water conditioner sold with it, I forget the name. Using other water conditioners can interfere, or so I think I've read. With a fresh tank of water and BioSpira you ought to be off to an easy start this time.

One thing to find out, you need to be certain what sort of water treatments your area uses, for if you have chloramines, you must use a water conditioner that handles both chlorine and chloramine as well as ammonia.

 

[wesleydnunder]

llee24 I would suggest you give Prime a try if you have chloramines. When I have to use a water conditioner it's the only one I use. When I clean filter sponges and biomedia I just use zip drops for my rinse water.

Mark