Water hardness observations

John,
Have you ever tested iron levels in your tank??


I have re-set my Ca and Mg to waht was my standard dosing levels before the little upset. The iron thing has me thinking (probably not a good thing)

Most tap water comes with some iron, and then most folks with high light plants add more. I have been dosing all along at standard dosage based on the CSM+B+Fe, but If I had zero to begin with, no enriched substrate, and plants that demand iron, this could be my difficulty as well. I'll see how things respond to Ca and Mg this week and go from there next weekend.
My iron test is showing dead zero so far. it's anly been cooking for about 30 minutes as of yet but no color change at all. Since my biggest issue is with hard water plants, and deep red plants, maybe iron is the missing link. I'm still hesitant with invertibrates in the tank, but if the test comes up low I'll probably adjust things next week.

I'll keep going one step at a time and report as I go. Any additional thoughts would be appreciated.
Dave
 
I've not checked Fe in a long, long time. I can't even vaguely remember what the results were except it hardly registered. I'll do a test tonight.

I dose Flourish Iron at 2.5mls twice per week.
 
daveedka said:
CSM+B does not contain any manganese from what I've read...
Dave
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Sorry for the delayed post Dave. According to the label on my CSM+B bag, Manganese is 2.00%. I'm not at home atm but I can snap a pic of the label if you'd like later.
Are you hesitant to dose iron with inverts in the tank? I dose and have cherry shrimp, Amano shrimp, P. bridgesii, ramshorns, MTS.
I like to use H. polysperma "sunset" for a gauge of iron. If I dose iron, the tops get dark pink almost purple, don't dose and they fade. I can't tell with Red temple (A. reineckii) and my Rotala indica/rotundifolia seems to hold the pink better once it has it (slower growth is probably why).

RTR said "Everything" which sparked a thought I have had. Is it the ratios that are of more importance than if the amount of nutrients present? For simplicity sake, let's assume Ca/Mg HAS to be 4:1. If you have 100ppm Ca and only 20ppm Mg, that's not the correct ratio. While someone having only 40ppm Ca and 10ppm Mg has no deficiency. In this demo, more isn't necessarily better. And it's NOT just between two or three nutrients...ALL of them or is it some of them? There must be some leeway in ranges but hopefully you understand what I'm trying to say/ask. :help:
 
I dose Iron heavily to get more red in plants. Usually on a 30G I dose Flourish Iron 10mL over two dosings. This tends to keep it logically around .5ppm. I do not have any invertibrates in my tanks. If I lapse on iron dosings, problems arise quickly like color loss, wilting plants and algae comes back. My tap water according to my test is 0ppm Fe. Further, the source has max level of Fe of 39 ppb (that is parts per billion). If I lived on the east side of my county, I would have much higher levels of Iron (up to 3900 ppb).

I did find out that my water can contain high levels of hydrogen sulfide content - as high as 84 ppm. Could this cause problems in plants in higher levels???

My tank CaCO3 levels are about 280ppm before water change (tap = 460ppm per water company) - from what I understand - this is fairly high. Dissolved Ca alone per the water company is 100 ppm. Dissolved Mg per the water company is 49 ppm. I do not have a test for Mg but I raise my ppm by 20 for my tank. This would make my dissolved Ca/Mg ratio about 1.45:1. Without the additional dosings, the plants do seem to do alot worse. Can anyone recommend a good test kit for Mg?

My guess in general is the RATIO of nutrients versus the AMOUNT. Even though my Ca and Mg are high, I can still grow most plants. Only a few of the ones I really wanted failed miserably. However, for those with uncontrollablely HIGH levels of nutrients, some plants may not be an option because they can not handle the large amounts of nutrients.

I will experiment in brining my Ca/Mg ratio closer to 1:1 and see if plants respond positively or negatively.

Just my unexperienced opinion is all

Aries
 
Is it the ratios that are of more importance than if the amount of nutrients present? For simplicity sake, let's assume Ca/Mg HAS to be 4:1. If you have 100ppm Ca and only 20ppm Mg, that's not the correct ratio. While someone having only 40ppm Ca and 10ppm Mg has no deficiency. In this demo, more isn't necessarily better. And it's NOT just between two or three nutrients...ALL of them or is it some of them? There must be some leeway in ranges but hopefully you understand what I'm trying to say/ask
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I am convinced ratios play into it, but have also seen several different ratios suggested for these two elements. Everything from 2:1 to 6:1. In all cases Ca is reccomended above Mg. 4:1 and 5:1 seem to be the two most popular levels. Since my shrimp and snails were showing signs of Ca defeciaeny at the start of all this, my origoinal dosing of Ca and Mg was targeted at 4:1 with calcium target specifically at 100ppm. It has been so long since I actually did the calculations that I do not remember exactly how I derived my current dosage but did put the ratio into the figures. I also accounted for the levels from tap, which are both low but skewed heavily towards Calcium. The only variable is my crushed coral and aragonite that add some of each but predominantly Ca.
This is also my line of thought on iron levels. Since it always seems that one element allows the plants use another (in general terms) I have to wonder if there is a key I'm missing that will make everything else work. For instance back when I was Ca defecient I may have had plenty of iron, but when I raised the Ca things improved to a point and now I'm iron limited. Lots of intracasies. I can garantee one thing. when I find the right level of everything I will carve the numbers into my basement wall with a brick chisel (as soon as I do that the water company will change something)

Are you hesitant to dose iron with inverts in the tank? I dose and have cherry shrimp, Amano shrimp, P. bridgesii, ramshorns, MTS
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Not so much hesitant to dose but hesitant to dose heavy, I don't want to run levels too high and cause other issues. I get mixed information on the dangers of high iron levels, but have been cautious because of my shrimp.

According to the label on my CSM+B bag, Manganese is 2.00%.
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I got the manganese info second hand but I'm glad to hear there is some in there. I can work with that number and get an idea of whether or not I still need more. Of course the proof is often in just adding a bit and watching for changes. I did see some improvement with the manganese additions, but nothing phenominal. I have enough manganese to last for the rest of my life unless I set up 40 or so plant tanks.

I have little or no confidence in the hobby dissolved iron tests. I have given them up as unreliabe.
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I bought the kit before I researched heavily, and never used it. Since I had it and assume it has a shelf life I figured to at least see if I could gain anything. According to my tests last night my iron levels are zilch. I saw no color change in the high or low range testing methods, and tested all tanks excpet the grow out tub. I did not have time to run a reference test last night but probably will this weekend just for grins. I certainly have no intentions of ever buying another iron kit unless something new and better hits the market.

[/QUOTE]Can anyone recommend a good test kit for Mg?
I haven't found one that will read low enough ranges for Freshwater. The calcium kit I use is a saltwater kit, but hits close enough for my purposes, and is consistant even if off slightly. I verified it by dosing specified amounts of CaCl and testing for accuracy (in test water not in my tanks). With Mg I just started with the tap water levels and added specified amounts based on Ghuck Gadds calculator.

Keep taling everyone :clap: :clap:
dave
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For the "Ca/Mg Ratio"...Is this for CaCO3/Mg or is it Ca(alone)/Mg??? Our test kits measure CaCO3 but I can get Ca from water utility (unofficial tests every 3 months and release official tests 1 time year).

I am wondering because my post above I get 1.45:1 Ca/Mg and I get 4.05:1 CaCO3/Mg ratio - thus hitting the "correct" ratio of 4:1.

Aries
 
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