water level and cycling questions

[carttman]

Almost two weeks ago I added water to my finally decorated 30 gal. tank. No fish yet. When I initially tested the water levels the pH alkalinity, ammonia, and nitrite levels read off the charts, even though there were no fish or other live matter in the tank. I am finally starting to see progress regarding the pH. I think I had a bad bottle of pH Down. The ammonia and nitrite levels are also better. Per manufacturer recommendations I added Stress Zyme. My final day for this treatment will be this Sunday. I have recently found several articles regarding cycling. My question is have I already completed a cycle, or do I need to to through the steps for fishless cycling and add ammonia to my tank, even though my ammonia levels are dropping?
Also, my general hardness is a little low. The manufacturer recommends using marine salt. I have aquarium salt. Is this the same thing as marine salt? I had planned on adding the recommended amount of aquarium salt anyway as a tonic and stress reducer, and was unsure if this was going to affect any of my levels.

 

[JSchmidt]

Yikes... lots to reply to...

First of all, welcome and congrats for asking your questions.

Second, most of the junk you've been told to add to your tank is just that... junk. Most of it is unncessary, and much of it does nothing but separate you from your money.

Third, it's a good idea to hold off adding any fish until you get a handle on on all this.

Now, you sound as if you have some test kits. Can you tell us, in numbers, what your tap water's pH is? That's the place to start.

Next, if it were me, I'd drain the tank and start over with plain water, adding only a dechlorinator. You have added enough stuff (e.g., Stress-Zyme, pH Down) that it's going to be hard to know what some of your test results mean (in terms of progress toward cycling) until that stuff is gone.

I assume you're fishlessly cycling (http://www.aaquaria.com/aquasource/cycle2.shtml) your tank? If so, good for you. After you refill the tank, you'll want to dose the tank to 3-5 ppm ammonia. Then test in 24 hours for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate (if you have all those tests). That will give us all an idea where you are in your cycle.

If you can do that, and let us know specifics, we'll be able to help you out.

While we're at it, what sort of filtration is on the tank, and what kind of fish do you hope to keep?

Jim

 

[OrionGirl]

I'll second everything from JSchmidt's post, and add one more question...What manufacturer indicates the use of marine salt in a freshwater system?

 

[carttman]

Thanks for the quick reply!
Guess tomorrow I'm starting all over again, but fortunatly I found out about cycling before I bought any fish. By-the-way I plan to add 2 Bolivian Rams, 6-7 Harlequin Rasboras, 5 or so Black Neon Tetras, and if possible a grouping of one of the following species Red Eye Tetras, or Glow Light Tetras.
As far as filtration is concerned I have the Eclipse3 30 gal. Bio Wheel system with mechanical and chemical filtration. My current tank levels are as you said pretty messed up:
pH=>7.6,
High Range=8.0,
Ammonia & Nitrites=0ppm,
GH=8dGH,
KH=1dKH.
Straight out of the tap the levels are as follows:
pH=7.0-7.2,
High Range=7.4 (I don't understand why there is such a difference between the two. I even repeated the test twice.), Ammonia=0.5-1.0ppm,
Nitrites=0ppm,
GH=7dGH,
KH=4dKH.
FYI it was the instruction booklet out of the Freshwater Master Test Kit by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc. that said, "Commercially available African cichlid or marine salts will increase GH and KH levels."(p 17).

 

[wetmanNY]

carttman, you need a good basic book. You won't be able to get the general picture just from posts here. David E. Boruchowitz, The Simple Guide to Freshwater Aquariums, TFH (2001), in glossy softcover, is the one to buy. Get it from www.amazon.com right now. Faster than getting to a bookstore, probably-- and you need a guide right away!

Everything will fall into place if you're patient and don't rush the initial cycling.

 

[JSchmidt]

Cartman, are your tap water readings done immediately after drawing the water, or did you let it sit. That's important, because it's not uncommon for tap water to have dissolved CO2, which will give you an artificially lower pH (CO2 is acidic in solution). If you didn't do this, try aerating the water for a half hour or shake it vigorously after it's reached room temperature, then test.

The reason I'm asking about this is that your tank pH is higher than what you report for tap water. This is generally caused by two things: dissolved CO2 in the tap water (which gasses off in the tank, giving a lower pH there) or some sort of calcareous substance (e.g., limestone rocks, crushed coral, shells) in the tank. I'm guessing the pH difference is cause by CO2, because your KH, which measures carbonate hardness, is lower in the tank. If you had crushed coral in the tank driving up pH, I'd expect KH to be higher in your tank than in the tap water.

You don't need to add any salts - you want to keep tetras, rasboras, etc. They most likely will do fine with your tap water. You do have some ammonia in your tap water, which probably means your water is treated with chloramine. You'll want to make sure you use a water conditioner that works well on chloramines. I like Amquel or Prime for that. Beyond that, I'd try to not add anything to your water.


If you are fishlessly cycling, which it sounds as if you are, you'll want to dose your tank (after emptying it and removing all that crud from the additives you've used) to 3-5 ppm ammonia. Does the tank have live plants? If not, that will make it easier to interpret test readings while cycling.


I'd go ahead and start dosing with ammonia; we can help you figure out the water chemistry stuff as your tank is cycling.

HTH,
Jim