What could be killing my Clowns?

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Dewey115

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May 15, 2004
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I have been trying to keep clown fish for the past month and a half or so and have had horrible luck with them so far. My tank is a 30 gallon: .2 nitrite (added the fish and a few small pieces of LR), 0 ammonia, 20ish nitrate (=/- 5), ph is 8.2, 1.0235 sg, and temp is 78. I started out by getting two fairly small Ocellaris and one died two days later, the other about a week after that. During that time I had two yellow tailed damsels and a very small green chromis. I figured the first died from stress from the move (I acclimate pretty much everything very very very slowly to be safe, probably over 2-3 hours or so adding 1/4 cup of my water each 10 minutes). I figured it was maybe just bad luck with him so I didn't think much of it. Then the other just one day was floating on the bottom breathing heavily till he stopped moving and died. I saw the other fish around him and thought maybe the damsels killed him or picked on him enough to stress him to death. I get two more bigger ones and get rid of the damsels and the chromis (at the same time) and they seemed to be doing great for two days, then I left last night to go to a family thing and get back this afternoon to both of them dead. The stats are the same as above (actually the specs are from today, the only thing different is the nitrite for the first two deaths was 0). I dont have a clue what could be the cause. I cant think of anything horrible or a poison of sorts in there because the (rather sparse) clean-up crew is doing fine and I have a Yasha Haze Goby doing great and a Candy-Stripped Pistol shrimp that both are active and looking good. I cant see how my clowns keep dying but the rest of them all do fine. Are Ocellaris sensitive to something I might be overlooking? I keep hearing everyone say how the tank bred ones are so hardy you can cycle with them, but I cant even keep them alive in an established tank? I just dont get what could be wrong. Any thoughts or ideas would be so very helpful because I really think they are pretty fish and would like to have some, but I just cant keep spending $30 to replace them all the time, that gets a bit too expensive.

Rick
 
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interesting i got 2 clown fish the other day and one died of pop eye i think but the other is doing fine...did ur clown have eyes that looked big..mabey it was a lfs problem or mabey i could be sum kind of infection i hope u have better luck

-kyle
 
The first 2 most likely died from being overstocked. If I read that correctly, you had 5 fish (well, 6 fish including the Yasha Haze Goby that you mention later on in your post) in a 30gal. tank. That's way too crowded. Tank raised and tank bred clowns are hardier that others, but all clowns are extremely sensitive to overstocking. In my experiance, a 30gal tank needs no more than 2 - 3 fish. It doesnt seem like it, because they're not fish, but your inverts. take up alot of room too.

I had 1 tank raised Percula, and a Purple Firefish in a 15 gal. reef. I got over-zealous one day and added a Bi-Color Blenny. Hours later, all fish started the "rapid breathing" that you mention. Within 2 days, the Percula and Firefish were laying around on the bottom, about to die. I took out the Blenny, and the next day everything was back to being perfect.

A good basic rule to follow is 1" of fish per 5 gal. of water. So, basically, if you had two 3" fish...thats enough for your 30gal. tank.

My suggestion would be to let your tank run, without adding any more fish, for at least a week and let things settle down. Then, add slowly with maybe 1 Clown, unless you absolutely have to have 2, and then get rid of the Goby and keep your tank with only 2 clowns and the inverts.
 
The first clowns were both quite small (about an inch or so) so that could have been it for them, but could that still be the problem even though the one lived for a week with no signs of any problem(s)? The other two were 1 1/2 to 2 inches each and had the Goby with them, but otherwise nothing in there. That still should have been ok and the last of the 4 was by himself for a day till he died, so it was just him and the Goby (and not that much for inverts, it is fairly lightly stocked in that regard). Not trying to "debate" or anything, just still doesn't 100% add up for me... not that I want to find something wrong, I just dont like my fish dying and want it all worked out before I try again. Regardless I am going to keep things like they are and slowly over the next 2-3 weeks add some more janitors and then after the tank has settled a bit I will maybe try again. I also am building a canopy for PC lights, so that will keep me busy. I guess time to bond with the Goby and Pistol for a bit :-D Thanks for the input, if anyone has any other ideas or suggestions please let me know. Thanks guys

Rick
 
It's impossible to argue with the sit and wait strategy. There will always be plenty of clowns available.

What about the stock at the LFS? Do you know whether they have had problems with mortality?
 
Actually...

There is no such thing as a true inches per gallon rule. Some types of fish want a lot of space, and some don't. However, I doubt many fish will be unhappy with AW2EOD's rule, as that tends to base everything around the fish that take up the most room. Two clowns need about 20 gallons of water, as a general minimum, so you weren't overstocked the second time.

My inclination is to wonder if you have gotten parasites along the lines of marine velvet. Your goby could easily be immune to the disease, as many fish are. I'd wait at least 4 weeks before adding any more fish to the display tank. Until then, you can quarantine a clown or two in 10 gallon tanks, or even buckets. Check their health frequently and do frequent water changes. Do not add any water from your LFS tank to your own under any circumstances. Instead, I'd say a 5 minute freshwater dip will kill most of any marine velvet your fish has. Just be sure to raise the pH of the freshwater using something like baking soda to an 8.2-8.4 before doing the five minute dip. (I'd further recommend a full 6 week hyposalinity treatment in a full q-tank for all fish, but that's less important than stopping your fish from dying.)

Another trick is to switch to either RO/DI water or let your tap water sit (premixed) for 7 days before adding it. This will get any contaminants in your tap water to be less of a problem if you don't already use RO/DI. I'm guessing you have a skimmer, but either a skimmer or frequent water changes can also help any water quality problems.

Remember that every time you add inverts to the tank, they can be carrying an illness that they don't get, but your fish do.
 
There are two lfs that I go to, one is better for fish, the other for coral (which I dont yet have light for, but thats their specialty nonetheless) and inverts. The first two clowns were from the invert place and I have seen a time or two that a new employee that wasn't familiar with saltwater wreaked some havoc in the tanks. Nothing bad enough to kill all their livestock, but enough to stress everything and maybe kill a few of the animals. The daily guys (two of them) both know what they are doing and they seem to do good with the setup and care of the tanks. Of course that doesn't mean that they cant have some disease, infection, parasites, etc in the tanks but I know overall they shouldn't pose more of a risk than any other places. The other place is a fish only store (they have both fresh and saltwater) and seem to be more like guys doing it as their hobby, not just a job. I feel both are pretty nice places and I have more trust for both of them than any other lfs in the area...

As for any parasite or anything in the water, will waiting for a month or so take care of the problem or will I have to actively treat the tank? I dont want to cause problems in treating the tank of course, but if it is something I will have to do then I want
to do it now before I add more inverts. Thanks again guys, this place always makes me feel better, lots of people helping out :-D

Rick
 
The more time you wait, the less chance you have of there being a ton of parasites in the tank, as they would only have the goby to keep their populations up, and clearly the goby must be at least more resistant if this is a parasite problem.

Most of the best real treatments of parasites consist of getting your fish out of the tank and and letting them live in a sterile environment for a while, preferably with special steps taken that make things very inhospitable for parasites but not lethal for fish. Six weeks with no fish in the tank will cause most parasites in a tank to die off. Two weeks is enough for many parasites, like velvet, IIRC.

I'd guess four weeks is a good minimum, because if the goby is resistant, that's less damaging to parasite populations than no fish, but still should reduce their numbers over time. You might not be rid of parasites, but the numbers might be small enough that you can keep a close eye on the fish and catch the problem in time for a fresh water dip to help.
 
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