ok... the white spots could have been an infection of sorts as a result of the ich or whatever caused it, but in all 3 cases? that includes when bulbs were not introduced. my tank temp was 78f as i was using a fixed heater at first... then 76f after the first outbreak.
please let's not focus on what i have just learned and cannot ignore... i am not ignoring it... i get it, no dormant period, just eggs waiting to hatch which is what i assume was the mentions by many others when i was doing research as a "dormant" period and was incorrect... my guess (irrelevant) is that it was just a bad way to communicate that they were not adults living in the fish at the time.
this is taken out of context...
one thing as far as i see when you have a tank full of ich and the cysts have just popped on your favorite fish you know it if you've checked at all.
it was in reference to the trademark white spots covering the fish... not in the water column... (aforementioned scatterbrain).
Perhaps you should ask the shop this time if the bulb has been treated. Then this may be the end of too many speculations. Perhaps Jennie may be correct that these are treated and the fish suddenly fell ill as a result of introduced foreign substances toxic to them therefore resulting in ich causing outbreak. This does not discount the fact that it can go undetected as low level infection, not that ich has dormancy periods.
i have attempted to contact them before unsuccessfully and that's why i am not trying to chase them down now. i have followed the instructions on the back of the package and had bulbs replaced though. just no contact or answer to my questions.
i do also understand that ich has been known to be in alot, if not all fish tanks. i also now know that dormancy was a misconception or a lack of correct methods of communication. that brings me to the realization that it did not come in at all on the bulbs. as far as speculations are concerned i did speculate i could see floating ich in the water column and that may be incorrect... i'm assuming so at this point. mostly everything else is questions of which i have and are not being answered. i would like for people to "speculate" or rather come up with options of what it could be. once i have got a handful of options worth tracking down i will do all that is in my power to find out. chances are i am at a disadvantage here though as i can only support so many tanks at the moment. none of which am i willing to offer up for testing purposes.
this thread is becoming very long and argumentative imo. although i communicate as common folk i have never been anywhere but the top of my class in anything. i get it. repeating the same info is becoming redundant or rather has been through this entire thread. too many people have been baffled and turned away from help, insight or possibilities on this ridiculous issue imo. those people include me now for the third time and my fish deserve better than i can provide for them without a clue as to what's going on unless the next bulbs i buy go somewhere else until it's safe. i do not know how long that is because i have no idea what the cause is. i am going to get more bulbs for sure... the price between them and live plants plus the joy of knowing i did it is nice. the fact does still remain that neither apons of any kind nor the "dwarf lilies" actually propagate with bulbs. this leads me to the conclusion that people put them there... yes i am speculating, but i assume safely.
i will more than likely start a new thread after a while. the new thread i hope will have less context that is arguable as i will be more careful in how i write it. i am now really only interested in what the bulbs that so often rot and grow white fuzz (no speculation as to what it is) may contain that fowls the water and can be undetected by hobby test kits. i am by no means narrowing it down to just the fuzz as my issues were not strictly followed by fuzz or preceded by it either. i would also like to know what is or may be common to those who experience this... call it phenomenon for now... if anything. the possibility that something may be reacting with something specific in certain water sources cannot go without consideration imo because too many people have had constant success with these bulbs yet others are having this problem with no other issues.
i really do appreciate someone trying so diligently to help me out. i do understand your stand on things. however... i should have used the words trophozoite and tomite. also i do know and understand what's in this link (
http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/disease/p/ich.htm ) pretty well. i know it's about(dot)com, but it was a quick easy reference for my current purposes and mirrors most information that can be found on the web. i should have done that to get the correct terminology in the first place, i know... i am bad with remembering words when i need them... scatterbrain.
please, please, please, if anyone has any insight or info about the process that goes into making these bulbs, contents of the materials used, other than what's visible what could make the water uninhabitable for fish and such lowering their immunity... or even speculation or guesses i could look into, please post it. i think the next thread will be in the newbies forum so as to not be limited to those that are so proficient with disease. i really think that is limiting my responses as well as my title.
i really do appreciate your responses and trying to get through to my thick head. the fact still remains assuming my head is thick is not helping me in my quest. i do accept they have no dormant period... i do accept they cannot survive dry... i believe it is possible the white things i have seen are another infection possibly caused by the stresses laid on by the ich or other factors, but 3 for 3 and one without new plants.
like i said you are awesome at what you do lupin... there is no question considering what i've read from you so far. you are just a little too good to look back and put your mind in a place where questions are abundant and answers are not there imo. i believe if this had happened to you and you were shot down that you too would be looking for answers... otherwise you would not know what you know and would not be sure enough to help so many people. i am looking for people looking for answers or those who may have had the same experience and better luck getting the answers. in this matter i believe you cannot help me.
please keep in mind i wrote what i wrote, some for lack of a better way of writing it while chasing 2 kids. i am by no means trying to make this difficult or be a pain in any way. i just want a road to look down, maybe a few forks in that road... avenues to search and follow til i get the answers i'm looking for.
i will continue to repeat it you are a wealth of information as so many others are here. just imo if things seem to keep happening to people they can't be disregarded. especially when i've done everything i've been told to do considering testing and many other variables.
i am trying hard to understand here (again) and i see no definite answers. furthermore i see only 2 avenues to follow that may lead to dead ends. one being allergy and the other being foreign substances. both caused by the bulbs. i will continue to focus on the bulbs as this needs to be answered imo.
once again this forum is awesome... lupin, you're info is golden. i am not interested in arguing how ich lives though as this has been clearly stated above.
jpappy... that info is awesome... it still leaves me at a loss though. as crazy as it sounds i am not sure this pertains to me. every time i have had my eyes or ears checked the doctor/nurse/whatever has had the same thing to say and i quote "i have never seen anything like this in all my years". i have seen what i've seen and it throws me off. even the doctors at the baltimore meps (military entrance processing station) who test hundreds of people a day said the same thing. nurses have sent me to other rooms to read eye charts several times... it's almost every time... it's actually a real hassle as they check and check and can't believe it. i have been accused several times of reading the fine print and memorizing it. a simple eye chart reading can take several hours cause i am a smart a** and immediately read the fine print and tell them what corner to check the chart to find it. then i refuse to read anything else until they find it because they get angry and tell me that's not what they're pointing at. i have spent hours staring into a tank riddled with ich scratching my head thinking i can't believe noone else has ever seen this. i just don't know now... this is frustrating and noone will confirm it's possible that someone who sees so much better than so many others can possibly see 1/4 more detail than people are supposed to be able to see. i have even marked with a pen in science class where organisms that were supposed to be microscopic are on the glass slides with amazing accuracy. it just blows peoples minds. i wish there was something i could do through the web to show you guys but that would be impossible. i know it sounds impossible, but i am really on the fence here... especially with the difference being so close. 40 to 30 is not that far off, but i have no idea if there's been anyone tested with my eyesight to prove that it's impossible. i have never met anyone who's eyesight compares. i thought i struck gold with my neighbor, but found he sees the same thing i do at less than half the distance. he can also read the fine print... crazy! we tested our abilities using my dell xps 1530 my screen resolution is 1920x1200 and i can read the smallest font it can make clear from about 12-14 feet away with amazing accuracy... probably more. we double checked with a magnifying glass to see if it was indeed our eyes or the screen and then used that to minimize things as much as possible. then one of us scrolled to a different page and picked a point to start reading and the other read.
i am at a loss... argh! but i don't have webbed feet like michael phelps so i sink pretty fast... lol.
