Where did my nitrites go? (and other questions)

[JSchmidt]

Originally posted by canucks
Toda's readings:
NH3= 0.6
NO2= 0.8-1.6
NO3= 50-ish
pH= 7.0
GH=80
KH=20
Ya, that water change oesn't seem to have done any damage whatsoever! I was really excited to see these results this morning. But I was a little confused as to why my KH would drop 10 (degrees?) overnight. Maybe because there has been alot of powder from that oyster shell floating around, (I keep squishing it up to release this), and so the fine powder is spent?? I don't know... just trying to guess. Tomorrow I'm going to see about getting some coral, I get the feeling it will do a faster and more reliable job, (and I could use it in my feeder tank and turtle tank and my yet to be cycled hospital tank, now that I am on to how much is involved in keeping water healthy for aquatic creatures.) Also, I was going to check out Big Al's, does anyone know what their reputation is like?
I really want to express my thanks to you guys, JSchmidt, superstein, and carpguy for coaching me through this. It really would have been much more confusing without your help!!
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU

I wouldn't worry too much about your KH dropping overnight. After all, you added water with less KH; you diluted the KH concentration by doing so. As long as you don't start doing 50% water changes 2-3 times a week, your shells should dissolve quickly enough to replenish KH and keep pH stable. Using crushed coral may help, but even it doesn't dissolve that quickly. You don't really want it to, either. You want it to dissolve just enough to keep up with the buffer being used up. The shells will have to play 'catch up' a bit when you do a water change, but once KH gets up to 80-100, the loss of KH from a water change shouldn't make much of a difference.

Glad this is all working out for you,
Jim

 

[canucks]

Today's readings:
NH3= 0.6
NO2= 0.2
NO3= 50
pH= 6.9
GH= 80
KH= <10

 

[carpguy]

Hi Canucks,

The numbers look good! Looks like the tank will be ready soon… congrats!

If your KH gets uncomfortably low (and it looks quite low), you can use a little bit of baking soda to boost it. Some folks use this method on a regular basis, but personally I think the coral method is both simpler and more stable. Until you get that sorted out though, it might help you to avoid crashes.

I'm guessing your test kit is giving you readings in ppm (parts per million). Other kits use a "degrees of hardness scale" thats been imported from Germany. I think the conversion is 17.3 ppm/degree -- I just use 17 for the ballpark figure. Either is fine -- this is just an FYI, in case you see some very odd looking numbers being posted.

It seems to me that Big Al's enjoys a fairly good reputation. Those of us down here south of the border only know it as a mail order business -- supposedly the best prices for dry goods and hardware on the web. You'll have to find a fellow Canadian to weigh in on the stores.

 

[canucks]

Today's results:
NH3= 0.6
NO2= 0.1
NO3= 50-110
pH = 6.6
GH = 80
KH = 20

I replaced the crushed shells with crushed coral. Hopefully this will make things a little more stable.

 

[canucks]

Today's results:
NH3= 0.6
NO2= 0.1
NO3= 50-110
pH = 6.6
GH = 100
KH = <10

Could someone please help me to understand why my KH is dropping while GH is rising??? I'm thinking I should use some baking soda, but I don't know how much, and I'm wondering exactly what it will do. I'd honestly rather not mess around too much with the process and just leave it to do it's thing if it's possible. Maybe I could do another partial water change? Or should I just continue to be patient? Thanks for your replies.

Kathi

 

[JSchmidt]

Well, let's see... KH is dropping, so whatever acidification processes are going on in the tank are outpacing the shells/coral rate of dissolving. This seems to be confirmed by pH dropping.

What's the source of acid? Is it bioacidification from ammonia/nitrite oxidizers? It looks like some of that is going on. You are dosing daily with ammonia, right? To what level? How long after dosing are you testing (24 hours?) You don't have any driftwood in the tank, correct?

I'd try doubling the amount of crushed coral and make sure it's in a place where it's getting a lot of water flow over it. I suspect you've added enough KH to get your biofilter moving again, but now it's producing enough acid to use up the KH. If that's correct, you're close to finding the magic balance of KH and pH to keep your water stable.

Keep us posted...

Jim

 

[canucks]

A HA!

I DO have driftwood in there!! And y'know, I was gonna say something about it earlier. I should take it out right? What a dum-dum. Tannins are acidic. I KNOW this- I'm a chef. (working with wine, which contains tannins, which tenderizes meats etc. by the ACIDS breaking down the protiens...). AUUGGGH. Boy do I feel silly now.
As for the dosing... I am still dosing to 5ppm each day, and testing 23-24 hrs after. And there is about 5tbsp of coral inside my filter. 20g tank.
Today's readings:
NH3=0.6
NO2=0.1
NO3=110
pH =6.4
GH =120
KH =<10

Does KH stand for CALCIUM carbonate or is it a potassium based carbonate? Should I do a partial water change and take the driftwood out? Also, I need to go out of town from Tues. morn til Thurs. afternoon/evening, and won't be able to dose. Will this really affect my cycle?
Thanks, Kathi

 

[JSchmidt]

Ahhh, driftwood... You toy with us, Chef Kathi!

You don't necessarily need to take out the driftwood, but you will have to increase the amount of crushed coral if you want to keep the wood.

It won't hurt a lick if you leave your tank without dosing for a day or so. I might be tempted to dose it just a smidge higher than normal before I left, but that's probably not necessary. Just feed your bacteria when you get home, and they'll be fine.

If you're dosing at 5 ppm and reading those low levels of ammonia and nitrite after 24 hours, you are very close indeed to being done. By the time you stabilize your water chemstry, I bet your biofilter will be ready for fish.

Keep us posted!

Jim

 

[carpguy]

Why are you asking about potassium? Is there another detail lurking behind the question? KH is an unstable term. Yes it means Calcium Carbonate Hardness (Kalksomethingorother in German), but you'll see bits from the chemists about alkalinity and buffering capacity and subtle variations in what those things mean. Not that I understand these things, but one of those details seems to center on other things (besides calcium carbonate) that can throw off the tests, like phospate buffers. I think potassium chloride can soften your water by decreasing your GH. I don't really grasp all the chemistry.

Where is the WetMan when you need him? (And may I take this opportunity to point you at the WetFeller's very great SkepticalAquarist. Chemistry is not my strong suite. He claims its not his either but he explains it (much) better than I could.

I'm a crushed coral partisan and its worked for me. If you think you're going to have another crash I'd try a fairly small dose of baking soda until you can get a notion of how much does what. If you think you're not going to see a crash then I'd just add a bit more coral and keep an eye on it. It doesn't work overnight and you may find yourself removing some later. 5 tbspns in the filter does all my 30g needs.

Agree with Jim again, driftwood is fine, a day off won't hurt, and you look like you're in the homestretch. Enjoy .

 

[canucks]

Todays results:
NH3= 0.6
NO2= 0.3
NO3= 10
pH = 6.8
GH = 60
KH =<10

I did another ~50% water change, and took a peice of bogwood out in an effort to raise pH again. I'm adding more coral today.
The reason I ask about potassium is because I was wondering if the "K" in KH stood for it. No other reason.
I wish I could see the Skeptical Aquarist page...we only have Webtv and it doesn't allow me to do more than get to the page, I can't see the menu or anything.
Thanks for your help, guys.