Where is my cycle?

[GoldLenny]

OK. The good news is that the survivors should still survive even though you made a few boo-boos. Since they survived the first 24 hours, their odds go way up now.

What are your nitrite readings? If they are 1ppm or less, then the pinch or two of salt per 10G will protect the fish. If the nitrite is over 1ppm, then do a series of 25% PWC's... the reason for the series is that IF your tap water is way off from the baseline, then you don't want to do too much, too fast. You might have to do a couple or few 25% PWC's, every two hours to keep the nitrites in check but I'm betting this is just a very short glitch in things caused by the low O2 (and/or high CO2 levels caused by your PWC).

ALWAYS treat the water with dechlor before adding it to your tank. If you have a Python water changer system, then you can add the dechlor to the tank first and then let the Python refill the tank by splashing into the tank which will also help to ingas/outgas the water.

Also, most folks don't know it but the dechlor products actually lower the O2 levels when they are first doing their thing so when doing the big PWC and using dechlor (and if you overdosed as so many folks do), that would further cause lower O2 level issues. I only recently learned just how bad dechlor can affect O2 levels. I know I've always stressed for folks to do a series of smaller PWC's rather than one big one, when they had fish, I just didn't know why it was so important. Read this thread for more info... http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=232193

 

[Whisker Wrangle]

Ok so when adding the dechlor, should I turn on my aerator.. I have one that blows bubbles on both sides of the tank, but dont ever have it on just because I assumed the tank was getting enough oxygen from the two filters flowing onto the surface.

 

[GoldLenny]

Without knowing your tap water baseline numbers, it's hard to know... but considering what just happened, I would suspect your tap water baseline numbers are a LOT different than what it comes out the tap as. Read my blog article.

Also, what are your nitrite levels? Did you add the pinch or two of salt per 10G?

 

[Whisker Wrangle]

Nitirte levels were hard to tell... what I meant by, "off the chart or 1-2 ppm" is that the color was deeper purple than what the card showed, so that makes me believe it might be off the chart... but it was a similar shade to 1-2 ppm, which would lead me to believe it was 1-2 ppm... I dont know its hard to explain..

I am doing a water change right now and am adding the salt to the bucket of water that is about to go back into the tank (letting it cool down because it comes out of the tap fairly warm)... So I am gonna add the appropriate amount of dechlor with the aerator running, then immediately start adding back freshwater with about 3-4 pinches of salt (36 gallons worth).

Oh and I still dont quite understand this:

"I would suspect your tap water baseline numbers are a LOT different than what it comes out the tap as. "

 

[Whisker Wrangle]

Regular table salt?

I just read this on ****************:

"Some people have added table salt to their aquarium water and had no problems. But other people have had trouble after putting table salt in their aquarium water. Therefore it is usually recommended that table salt NOT be added to aquarium water."

Table salt is all I have though

 

[GoldLenny]

Yep. Don't ever buy that super-duper-overpriced aquarium salt stuff... it's the same thing as plain table salt. If you have iodized, that's OK too.

**************** has some good info on the site but they also have some total crap... I guess just like every site. Unless they elaborate with scientific details, disregard generalized statements like that.

Read this well-referenced article for more info.. and almost everything you ever wanted to know about salt and aquariums. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml

This pond article by a veterinarian also elaborates on how table salt might be bad for use in ponds... but it's not the same as in aquariums since aquariums do not get direct sunlight... at least 99% of them don't.
http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/ponds/Kebus_Salt_Treatments.html

Also... remember that **************** sells aquarium salt so they may have some bias. Whenever getting advice from someone that sells products, always double check things.

 

[GoldLenny]

Nitirte levels were hard to tell... what I meant by, "off the chart or 1-2 ppm" is that the color was deeper purple than what the card showed, so that makes me believe it might be off the chart... but it was a similar shade to 1-2 ppm, which would lead me to believe it was 1-2 ppm... I dont know its hard to explain..

I don't know. Off the chart would seem to have to be a VERY DARK color, since the color gets darker from 1 to 2 and then even darker from 2 to 5, so I'll have to presume it's between 1-2ppm.

I am doing a water change right now and am adding the salt to the bucket of water that is about to go back into the tank (letting it cool down because it comes out of the tap fairly warm)... So I am gonna add the appropriate amount of dechlor with the aerator running, then immediately start adding back freshwater with about 3-4 pinches of salt (36 gallons worth).

OK. Since your water comes out the tap warm, that likely means it will be higher in CO2 levels... but not always... which is why the tap water basleline testing is so important.

Oh and I still dont quite understand this:

"I would suspect your tap water baseline numbers are a LOT different than what it comes out the tap as. "

Read my blog article, "Find Your Tap / Source Water Baseline" and do that 48 hour test on your tap water and post your starting numbers, 24 hours number and 48 hour numbers and I'll help you analyze what is happening. My blog link is in my sig. The alphabetical list of articles is on the right side, partly down the page.

 

[GoldLenny]

Also, I don't recall if you ever mentioned what dechlor product you use. Let me know.. and also let me know if you are overdosing it (I know many folks do for no reason).

 

[Whisker Wrangle]

I am using Aqueon Water conditioner..

I am going to read your blog post right now... will post in a bit... Thank you so much for your help Lenny!

 

[GoldLenny]

I am using Aqueon Water conditioner..

I am going to read your blog post right now... will post in a bit... Thank you so much for your help Lenny!

Aqueon doesn't have much info on their website http://www.aqueonproducts.com/products/tap-water-conditioner74704.htm but I did find a PDF file that gives some of the stuff on the bottle but no details about dosing or ingredients. http://www.aqueonproducts.com/assets/008/11511.pdf

From what that PDF file says, it looks like the Aqueon Tap Water Conditioner is like a Prime type product which supposedly "detoxifies" ammonia, so it's more than just a dechlor product. The downside of these products is they have a lot more chemicals to them than a basic dechlor and some of these products do interfere with trying to fishless cycle and also reduce the O2 levels a little more than a regular dechlor. Aqueon also has stuff that claims to add stress relief and slime coat to fish... neither of which are really necessary IMO and are just other unnecessary chemicals being added. I wish all companies would at least make their MSDS sheet available... but even those are deceptive at times when companies say "proprietary ingredients". When you run out of Aqueon, look for API's Tap Water Conditioner which should be lower priced and will treat a lot more water and the only ingredients are the dechlor and heavy metal treating chemicals... none of the stress-this, slime-that type stuff. The ammonia detoxifying chemicals are OK for folks stuck with cycling with fish or an emergency ammonia situation but they simply aren't needed for most people in every day aquarium care.