Why Animals Don't Have Rights

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according to my religion God created man to rule over the animals

however God also charged man with being a good steward (caretaker) of all of creation

thus i believe that it is man's responiblity (no obligation) to care for the land and creatures so long as this does not get in the way of man fulfilling his true purpose;
The worship of God Almighty
 
OP, let me see if I understand you correctly:

You believe that animals should be treated humanely, but when they're not treated as such under a human's care, that human should not be punished by law?

Laws are created from man's moral compass, which is guided by emotion, yet you think emotion should be left out of the picture? What else but emotion lead humans to believe killing, raping and stealing were considered wrongdoings?

Well said!
 
ks folks....traveling already off topic and against TOS...
 
Laws are created from man's moral compass

This will be the point of disagreement for some.Isn't the sole purpose of laws to protect the "rights" of those that have them? There is certainly an admirable purity about this definition. On the other hand, it's rather pointless since, like it or not, all societies end up with (democratically agreed-upon, grandfathered-in, or autocratically dictated) guidelines of conduct and then attempt to enforce these with law. One could reasonably argue that this is a bad thing, but now we're having a discussion about the role of laws and the government rather than one about animal welfare.
 
I see. Well, I can accept that. Here's my attempt at a non-emotional response. Humans don't need animals. They are nothing more the a food source, and humans can get everything we need from plants, which can be grown en-mass anywhere we need them to be grown (with a little effort and energy on our part we could even turn the moon into a garden) so animals are, technically, obsolete. Therefor the only thing I see stopping us from destroying them is greed. We are greedy, we want that Big mac, and to get that Big Mac we need a cow to become beef. Therefore we keep the cow around. We WANT pets, so we keep them around. Animasl could be wiped out, leaving only plants, and humans could easily take their places in all niches using out tech to keep the plants A)Alive, and B)in check. Going down that path we could easilly become the only animals on the planet and do so untouched. As to whether or not that would be logical or moraly correct is irrelevant, if you do not wish to include emotions in this.

Including emotions, many humans feel moraly bound to try and help animals we see as "inferior". Humans, because of emotions like sympathy, feel the illogical need to protect and aid our animal kin. We felt the need to take care of fish, so we became fishkeepers. I felt sorry for that poor kitty in the pound so I took him in and named him Stripes. Emotion is the only thing that makes humans keep animals around, we no longer need them to survive (how many animals do you see working farms in the midwest?). Humans feel morally bound to help animals survive, therefore animals survive. We feel morally bound to protect them, hence animal rights ideas. Take out moral, replace with logic, and animals would be all but extict.

Subrosa, was that emotionless enough for you?

Started out ok, but sorry, no but I will reply to one factual error. Humans cannot get all we need from plants. B12 is the deal-breaker
 
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I'm including what I feel are the basics of law-making to prove that emotion of sorts is involved, whether it is a widely shared emotion or not. My point is that I feel you cannot leave emotion out of governing people, or people's property (i.e., animals, apparently). It may not encompass every aspect of government, but it is woven in concerning many laws. I wasn't really talking about or considering laws in countries ruled under dictatorships, as those governments don't even seem to give their own people "rights," let alone animals. Sub wants to leave emotion out, and I feel that is impossible.
 
OP, let me see if I understand you correctly:

You believe that animals should be treated humanely, but when they're not treated as such under a human's care, that human should not be punished by law?

Laws are created from man's moral compass, which is guided by emotion, yet you think emotion should be left out of the picture? What else but emotion lead humans to believe killing, raping and stealing were considered wrongdoings?

I feel that there are inconsistencies in your argument and would appreciate a clearer explanation of your opinion.

The inconsistencies are not mine. Without the fundamental right to self-determination all other rights are meaningless. There is no way to rationally argue that animals have the right to self-determination if you accept the buying and selling of them. You should calmly and slowly re-read the original post. Laws spring not from emotion but from a clear understanding of the right to self-determination and the ancillary rights that are required for human existence. Allow me to explain. You were given a life, correct? Sadly the life you were given is not a self-sustaining thing. You are required to act to sustain your life. Therefore you have the right to take the actions necessary. But is it really actions that sustain your life? Allow me to answer again. No. Actions do not sustain your life, it is the outcome of those actions. Therefore you have the right to the outcome of your actions. Now since you have the right to have these, you have the right to keep them, or more specifically, to defend them. The part of this that I think you will initially have trouble with is the fact that everyone else has exactly the same rights you do, and in a society which at least claims to be just, you may not violate anyone else's rights just as they may not violate yours. This is where laws come from.
 
I'm including what I feel are the basics of law-making to prove that emotion of sorts is involved, whether it is a widely shared emotion or not. My point is that I feel you cannot leave emotion out of governing people, or people's property (i.e., animals, apparently). It may not encompass every aspect of government, but it is woven in concerning many laws. I wasn't really talking about or considering laws in countries ruled under dictatorships, as those governments don't even seem to give their own people "rights," let alone animals. Sub wants to leave emotion out, and I feel that is impossible.
The fact that you are willing to see others punished because of what you feel is precisely the problem. You don't feel the same as I do. Why are your feelings more valid than mine, or vice versa?
 
B12 can be gotten from yeasts. It also can be manufactured and taken as a supplement.

Yeasts that are artificially supplemented. I find it an amusing argument that artificial supplementation can provide B12. It is a product of the same technology that makes us so destructive in the eyes of many who espouse veganism.
 
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