why are these things in fish food?

The only frawback in that recipe is the amount of food you'll get. Even after been dried up, you will get with more then 2 pounds of food (consider the regular fish food can is a few ounces) that will last almost for ever. I'm affraid it will spoil over time.

If I prepare a little bit, the electricity used to bake it will end up been expensive. Mostly, I'll stick to the comercial food.
 
thank you for the recipe, patoloco!

rockabillychick....what doyou feed your fish? have you found a brand without the dreaded e.? just curious.

As with anything, there is a wide range of what's "healthy" in fishkeeping. Are your fish going to be healthier if you make your own food and don't feed them commercially prepared food? Sure. Does that mean that commercially prepared food is unhealthy? No.

I'm sitting here eating a Godiva Truffle. I would be a lot healthier if I put away the christmas chocolates and ate only whole foods from the natural food store. My cats would be healthier if I fed them a raw food diet instead of the ultra-premium dry food I feed them.

We all make choices about our health and the health of those (human and animal) who depend on us.
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i agree. however, the problem is there are so few if any manufacturers who will find alternate and more healthy products to manufacture. i am not averse to paying the higher price. even catfood from the vet- a bit off topic here- for kidney compromised felines contains ethoxyquin. as long as those in "authority" accept it and the manufacturers cut corners for the sake of making a cheap product, the consumer is left lacking. then again, if the consumer cares so much, make it h/herself. no, the world isn't perfect but surely some manufacturer out there cares enough to try. nah, itis just an animal. its just a fish...etc,etc, etc.

:OT: add in another factor: what is appealling to the majority of consumers, and not to the one who doesn't want to compromise. again, a bit off topic but comparable. cats are obligate carnivores. because veggies are appealing to the human money spender as showing a balanced diet, veggies are placed in cat food. these aren't predigested veggies as if it just came out of a prey animals gut. this causes more problems and digestive upset than improving the health of the animal. add to this, animals as a survival trait rarely show issues until it is too late to reverse or requires intensive treatment. at the least, other health issues will present as a result, such as allergies, but try to track down the source of the problem so we add more medication.

ok, so back to the quote and other point. yes, we dont' eat healthy either, however, it is our choice. the animal has no choice but to eat or starve. they eat what we provide.

just my thoughts and frustrations. :thud:
 
I wrote to Hikari to ask them why this stuff is in the food and here is their response:

"Mark - We use it in very small amounts as a flavor enhancer. We have done lots of testing on all the ingredients in our food and would never use anything in any amount that would or could harm the fish. We appreciate you taking the time to contact us and your interest in giving your pets the best possible diets and are pleased you have chosen Hikari!"


So it seems fair. I do believe them when they say they would never place anything in there that could harm the fish.

BUT

It's only a flavor enhancer. Fish don't need a flavor enhancer. I see no point at all in its inclusion even if it is harmless. It's just not something I see as a good thing.
 
What's so bad about giving fish good-tasting food? You all are so ready to comment on how it's not healthy, how you should only give them stuff that they need and is good for them... Why not give them something they enjoy? Would you like it if you just had to eat tasteless crap for the rest of your life, even if it was healthier?
 
This is in no way intended to trivialize concerns about the health and welfare of our fish, but this has been picking at the back of my brain since this thread started. Aside from those people who have legitimate sensitivities to MSG, I really feel the media has totally overplayed the whole thing, effectively portraying MSG as a form of cyanide that was purposefully being put into our food and killing consumers in job-lots throughout the world. IMHO, it's just silly. It has been put in food for a long time, and it's not like it suddenly became deadly overnight. I totally agree that unnecessary ingredients probably should not be put into fish food for a whole bunch of reasons (fish health, allergies, chemicals in the tank, throwing tank of balance, etc), but I honestly wouldn't worry too much about MSG. I've heard of fish not liking flake-food, but I've NEVER heard of it killing a fish through an allergic reaction.

The one concern I could see legitimately having with MSG is as follows: MSG is a sensory enhancer, not an allergen. Thus, one is not allergic to MSG per se, but rather MSG can -greatly- exascerbate the severity of an allergic reaction to another food, such as seafood, peanuts, etc., to the point that what would have been a minor allergic reaction (hives) is now a potentially fatal reaction. So, let's say the fish are eating MSG infused flake-food at the same time you're treating them with some sort of medication for a parasite, and the fish happens to be allergic to the medicine. Now you may have some serious trouble. (Something to consider, I'll admit.) But MSG by itself? :huh:

I think fish deserve fun and tasty food. Maybe MSG isn't the way to offer it, but I also don't think it should be horribly bland, either. If we care about their health, presumably we care about how they "feel," what they're quality of life is like, and how they experience things around them. So, let the little guys enjoy their food, too.

Peace.
 
Do we really know if fish enjoy their food any more with that chemical in it than without it? By the way I see them tearing into almost anything you put into a tank, I seriously doubt that MSG has any place in my fish's food.

Of course it's not a matter of anything really all that serious regarding the welfare of the fish, that is not my point. Hikari even states in that email they sent me that they would never put anything in their food that would jeopardize the health of the fish. But that is not my gripe.

The point is that it doesn't have any good reason to be there, and it's obviously just a way to get the fish to eat more. (That is, if the MSG even works on fish! We don't even know if it works on them!)

I say it's a way for Hikari to sell more food. Fish eating more, seeming to enjoy it more than other brands = consumer thinking he/she bought a better product. The MSG drug is working more on us than on our fish. That is something to consider. It makes me question the business ethics of Hikari, not their fish health ethics.
 
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...fish have more taste buds than humans. if they have more with which to sense, i think they need less "flavor enhancement" than humans. i've never noticed my cory cats salting up a shrimp pellet before they have at it, and i bet those guys at the lfs haven't put a cajun rub or marinade on their deceased tankmates. but that's just a wild guess. :D

i kind of agree with you, echo. when you really think about it, it's a bit of a disreputable business practice to use such a thing in fish food. not because of any danger it may be causing the fish, but because they're basically cheating (and charging you more money!).

if you go to any restaurant that costs more than $10 a plate, there's a pretty slim chance that your food will contain MSG; it's strictly used in foods that are sub-par, overprocessed, and cheap (i.e. ramen noodles). so why is it okay with everyone that this supposedly "high-end" fish food is using it? i would expect this in, say, store brand generic fish food. that might require flavor enhancement because they use fillers to make the stuff cheaper. but if hikari is such a quality product, why do they need such a thing?

sure, i'll admit i've ingested a fair amount of MSG in my day, but i'd be pretty mad if i went to a five-star restaurant and got an MSG headache from their filet mignon.

if hikari is going to be using cheap drugs to enhance their food, their prices should reflect that.
 
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MY complaint is about the stuff they DON'T tell you is in the food OR medications!

Let's look at Jungle (I'm really begining to hate the entire Jungle line) "Anti-Bacteria Medicated Fish Food". Food that is a medicine as well, so I'm not hijacking :)

Is there an ingredients list? Good gracious, no! That would imply that they wanted you to know what was in there. Let's see what the bottle DOES say:

"For Internal and Extrenal Bacterial Infections". Okay, I'll buy that for a dollar.
"FOR AQUARIUM AND ORNAMENTAL POND USE ONLY". Still okay to me
"NOT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION". I prefer popcorn, so I'll pass.
"NOT FOR FOOD FISH" Contains medicine, right? So it's all good.
"NOT FOR USE WITH SALTWATER INVERTERBRATES" Hrm, WHY? I'm not salt versed. Does anyone know of a chemical that can be used on fresh inverterbrates but not salt?

"RUMINANT MEAT AND BONE MEAL FREE". Good. What about ruminant fat? :)

Okay, so that's not so bad. Oh, look, some fine print. Let's see what it says:

Warning for California Residents: This product contains a chemical known to the State of California to cause cancer.

WHAT?

Okay, so we know that CA has some really strict (and some think silly, overly strict) laws in regards to cancer-causing agents.

But, WHY is the chemical in question not listed? Are they afraid no one will use it if they know what they are throwing in their fish tank? Are they afraid that someone will come to the conclusion that maybe they shouldn't even be handling the stuff? Who knows? Only Jungle does, apparently.

So, why are none of the ingredients listed? Perhaps they just didn't have room on the bottle. Perhaps there is nothing dangerous in there and they only had to have that warning because of CA laws. Frankly, if it's good enough for CA to have a warning on it, it's good enough for me to know what it is so I can make a decision.

Blargh. I'm never ever going to use ANY products made by Jungle again.

Roan
 
Frozen fish food is really easy to make, and recipes are available all over the internet. If the ingredients of prepared foods bother you, then simply make your own. I do.

Roan Art said:
Warning for California Residents: This product contains a chemical known to the State of California to cause cancer.
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When it comes to warnings, those that apply only to the state of California may as well be ignored. One of my favorites is that fishing poles may cause cancer in the state of California. Fortunately, as with other innocuous objects, California is the only state where you can get cancer from a fishing rod. :rolleyes:
 
Raskolnikov said:
When it comes to warnings, those that apply only to the state of California may as well be ignored. One of my favorites is that fishing poles may cause cancer in the state of California. Fortunately, as with other innocuous objects, California is the only state where you can get cancer from a fishing rod. :rolleyes:
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Silly, isn't it? However I wouldn't say they should all be ignored. *Some* of them are viable, IME, and I feel all the other states should carry the same warnings. I could cite examples, but they aren't even close to fish-related but rather deal with my art profession.

I digress, IMHO they should still list the ingredient that produces the CA warning. Heck, they should list ALL the ingredients.

Roan
 
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