will it spike? stocking ideas

hunnysnax

hunnysnax

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Nov 26, 2005
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sydney australia
hey guys

i have a 10 gallon tank i'm just setting up. i started out cycling it by using filter floss from my 30 gallon in my 10 gallon's filter. i put 2 neon rainbows (1 inch long) in there and there was no ammonia or nitrite spike for two weeks so i assumed it was cycled, or at least had enough bacteria for the 2 little guys. 2 days ago i added 3 small yoyo loaches (1.5 inch long) and a chinese hillstream loach (1 inch if that) to the tank and i have been monitoring everything closely to make sure that if the ammonia spikes that i catch it before it hurts the fish.

if the ammonia spikes... when should i expect it to do so? if it does start spiking at what level do i water change at? also when would it be a good idea to add the 2 other neon rainbows that i plan to add. i'm new to the small tank thing and i don't want the fish to be hurt.

also i'd like a bit or ... reassurance i guess about my stocking... its a 20inch 10 gallon tank and i plan to put in
4 neon rainbows (max size 2.5 in)
3 yoyo loach
1 chinese hillstream loach

if anyone has any ideas on my stocking give me a yell, i always have the 30 gallon (2 small angels, 2 pearl gouramis, 2 bristle nose catfish) if the yoyos aren't compatible with my tank (they are what i'm worried about... i was stupid and bought on a whim without researching it!!! but they are gorgeous and i love the silly things)

thanks guys!

hayley
 
You are overstocking that tank. Neon rainbows -- and I'm assuming you mean Melanotaenia praecox -- can grow to over 3", not 2.5".

<rant>There is so much misinformation on rainbows out there it is making me scream! :rant: </rant> <-- not directed at you, directed at wherever you got the information that they only got to 2½ inches.

Neons need to be in schools, six is best, and need lots of room to swim. Let's look at what you are planning:

in a 10 gallon tank: four rainbows that grow 3+ inches and need lots of room to swim, four loaches that grow 4+ inches and one loach that grows just over 2".

Please ditch the rainbows unless you are going to get a 55 gallon instead of 10 gallons. Seriously.

I'm sure someone who knows more about yoyos may tell you to ditch them too.

Roan
 
*nearly cries* i'm so frustrated with this tank!!!

even if i wanted to ditch the neon rainbows i couldn't as they were initally bought for my 30 gallon 3 foot tank. i had 8... 2 survived... after the angel got to them. the fish store won't take them back even though they ill advised me that the angels would not harm them.

i have a very small income ($280AU per week... thats like... $200US) and i can't afford to go out and buy a 55 gallon tank... my 30 gallon was a gift from my bf and my 10 gallon is an old one of my mums, set up so i could save the last two rainbows from extinction (well extinction in my tank).

i was also assured by my lfs *rolls eyes* that they only get 2.5inch max as they had a male of 3 years in their 6ftx3ftx3ft tank that only ever achieved 2 and a bit inches (though maybe it has to do with suppliers? i don't know) and that it should be ok for 4 of them in my 10 gallon. but i'm getting alot of mixed info as you said (tanks from 10 gallons to 30gallons for 5 fish recommended on different sites).

i got my info from
http://www.timstropicals.com/Inventory/Rainbows/DwarfNeonRainbowInfo.asp
http://www.petresources.net/fish/rainbowf/mel_pra.html
http://filaman.uni-kiel.de/summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=10516
http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/gpraecox.html
http://species.fishindex.com/species_2936melanotaenia_praecox_blue_rainbowfish.html
http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=10516

so i have been TRYING to do the right thing. as i said the yoyo loaches were a whim thing and i regret that and i've been strongly considering moving them into my 30 gallon (well i am... now decided). i'm coming for help on websites and i feel like i'm being attacked half the time.

if i listen to the fish store then i shouldn't be listening to much on the internet... if i listen to the internet i shouldn't be listening to much the fish store has to say. what am i surposed to do!?!?!

i need some suggestions guys... not just "no thats not ok. you evil fishmonger! those poor fish!"(as the last site i went to with stocking ideas said... before i started stocking and things could have been prevented) or "hey custumer chick... this schooling fish would be great... you'll need at least 10.. and they are $25 each!" (as the last fish store i went to did when i asked about what they would suggest)

sorry roan this isn't directed at you ... its just the end of a 3 weeks quest for info that anyways ends up the same.

i'm sorry for the hissy fit... i'm just REALLY MEGA frustrated with it all at the moment. if i moved the yoyos out... and got 3 kuhli loaches... or just plain moved them out... would that be ok? or would i be the death/misery bringer to more fish?

hayley

*goes and watches her fish and hopes lightning doesn't blow up her computer for being such a b**** *
 
Check local pawn shops or thrift stores, if you were closer I would send you one of my 55's but your a tad far for shipping, I would run with a few loaches and a pleco for awhile
 
Hunnysnax,

I can understand your frustration. It's hard to know what to do with all the differing information that one can get.

if i listen to the fish store then i shouldn't be listening to much on the internet... if i listen to the internet i shouldn't be listening to much the fish store has to say. what am i surposed to do!?!?!

i need some suggestions guys... not just "no thats not ok. you evil fishmonger! those poor fish!"(as the last site i went to with stocking ideas said... before i started stocking and things could have been prevented) or "hey custumer chick... this schooling fish would be great... you'll need at least 10.. and they are $25 each!" (as the last fish store i went to did when i asked about what they would suggest)
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Sigh, I hate this LFS crap. How the heck are you supposed to know what to do?

When you are researching fish you have to keep 1 thing in mind: fish stores are there to sell you fish and aquaria. Most internet sites have no interest in selling you fish, they want you to read their information and use it. It doesn't mean their information is always correct, but I would take the advice of people and sites on the internet before I would take the advice of an LFS.

At the time I posted I must have misread your message and didn't realize that you had already bought 2 of the rainbows. What's done is done.

So only have two of them in there, good. Hold off for a bit on the other two and let's see if we can make some sense out of all this.

Now, the differences in lengths in those sites you specified along with the lengths that I have are rediculous. They range from 1.92" to 3" :rolleyes: Some are specified as SL (standard length) and I have no idea how the other fish are measured.

I rely on The Rainbow Fish Home for most of my information. I cite most, because with new rainbows it all gets confusing. Praecox, the Neon Rainbow, isn't that new, so the information there is probably correct. He cites: "May reach a maximum size of 8 cm (3.15"), but usually less than 6 cm (2.36") SL." SL would be standard length and doesn't include the tail. If you include the tail, then it would be about 6.35cm (2.5") to roughly 9cm (3.25"). Briefly, between 2.5 and 3 inches or say 6cm and 9cm. Converting those numbers is a pain :)

Here's what I will do, if it's all right with you: I will post a message to the rainbow mailing list and ask everyone what the real length is. If anyone, those people will know. Many of them are breeders. I see Boesemani rainbows listed all over the place as a max size of 3", but several people on the list have 6" Boesemani. However, those are fish that are at least 10 years old. Your LFS may have a 3 year old that is 2", but we also don't really know how well he was kept. I get the impression that they are a slow growing fish once they get to their initial adult size and are sexually mature.

You also have to take into account that many rainbow fish are very deep bodied. Praecox is one of those. He's not a slender fish by any means and a 2" praecox's body will develop into a 1" plus fish in depth. That's a fair amount of fish in a 10 gallon. Let's see if I can visualize this for both of us --
a 10 gallon tank is 20x10x12 (these are US sizes, so your mileage may vary). I've made these images to scale based on a 10gallon tank and 2.5" praecox fish:

neons%203.jpg


Now, rainbows are schooling fish and really need to be in groups of 6 or more:

neons%201.jpg




I honestly don't know about the other fish you have listed. Ten gallons is an awfully small tank. They look rather crowded to me, whether its 4 or 6.

Let me go post to the list and see what the experts say.

Roan
 
*blushes* thanx roan. lol sorry about the hissy fit. look do you think if i kept the fish in there until they grow larger they'll get along with my angelfish? i was planing to move the yoyos out when they get a little bit bigger (they are only 1 1/2 inch max at the moment and i don't want the bigger fish in the 30 gallon to get at them... though they are fast). what if i did the same with the rainbows? like just kept the 2 and when they got larger... move them to the 30 gallon where, hopefully the angel can mind his own business... my 2 angels are only about 2 inches but they still caused havock to the rainbows!

cheers

hayley

ps. northstar, as always, you're great lol... if i tell you too much you might get a big head :P
 
False or missleading info is all around. Even my "big fat" atlas and encyclopedias give different advice about the same species.

I've been also in the car modding hobby, and miss information is double there. Everyone has their own opinion, and sometimes, defending that way of thinking has taken poeple to deep discussion and even punches. Too bad.

My best advice: Read, research, and read again. Look in many places and find what you think is better. Don't take everybody's advice, but from those you see have knowledge and experience. Use your judgement, and start slowly. You don't need a lot of money to do things right.

For instance, I learned a lot in the newbie forum. I learnt about water chemistry, nitrogen cycle, stocking option and equipment needed. Now, I feel confident enough to walk into a store and buy what I need, not what the clerk wans to sell to me.

Remember, knowledge is power.
 
hunnysnax said:
*blushes* thanx roan. lol sorry about the hissy fit.
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Ferget it. I was rather harsh with you and I apologize. I had just responded to someone else that wanted to stick Boesemani rainbows (grow 4-6") in a 20 gallon and was a little ticked.

look do you think if i kept the fish in there until they grow larger they'll get along with my angelfish?
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That I honestly don't know. I'm not very versed in cichlids. Why don't you post a separate message about the angels?

I do think that your two will be fine for now in the 10g. I've gotten one response to my list post, from a rainbow guy who said:

"Praecox can get to three plus inches and almost as tall (really ugly) in the hands of people that really overfeed."

Heh, I keep visualizing a discus :)

i was planing to move the yoyos out when they get a little bit bigger (they are only 1 1/2 inch max at the moment and i don't want the bigger fish in the 30 gallon to get at them... though they are fast). what if i did the same with the rainbows? like just kept the 2 and when they got larger... move them to the 30 gallon where, hopefully the angel can mind his own business... my 2 angels are only about 2 inches but they still caused havock to the rainbows!
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Well, rainbows really do need to be in schools of 6 or more and the list says they really need a heavy planted tank for them to be happy. I didn't know that, probably because I planted my tanks anyhow and never thought about it. Again, post another message here in General asking about your angels in specific. They sound rather aggressive to me -- more so than other posts I've read about angels. Maybe it's normal when they get bigger. I don't know.

I'll keep you informed as I get more responses to the rainbow list. Many of them live in Germany so they are in a different time zone.

Roan
 
Well said, Patoloco :)

I got my first rainbows a few months ago and just fell in love with them. I've spent a lot of time since then just reading and learning about them. I spend a lot of time on the web -- normal for me -- so naturally I visit sites that have rainbow information all the time. What I've read vs what gets posted onto the rainbow mailing list is astounding. "This rainbow needs salt" "all rainbows need salt" "they only grow [insert wrong size here]".

Those are the most common things I read. Salt and wrong size. Rainbows are a lot like bettas in some respects; they are survivors and can tolerate up to 17ppt of salinity (almost full marine) if they have to. Bettas can survive in puddles, if they have to. That doesn't mean either of them belongs in salt or puddles, just means they can live in there.

The thing that is hurting the rainbows the most right now, is that they are new to the pet trade and no one seems to have the right sizes listed. The most common rainbows are of the Melanotaeniidae family and they grow the biggest of all of them. Boesemani DO grow between 4-6", Praecox DO grow to 3", Irian (Red Salmon, Glossolepis incisus) DO grow 6+" -- and I've seen these for sale at a local LFS. Wonder what they tell their customers about their projected size?

Blah, I ramble. Sorry guys :)
Roan
 
hmmm the only reason why i was getting more rainbows was because i know they are happier in schools... will they be ok, just the two of them?

its mainly just one of my angels, the other is very peaceful. the agressive angel eats so much as well! he'd eat until i popped if i let him! especially blood worms. he loves them lol. i have seen very large (6 inch angels) kept with rainbows of about 3 inches before... maybe i have a crabby angel :( or maybe the rainbows are just too little (they were quite small when i put them in... from 1.5cm-2.5cm... the large ones survived). i'll definately do i seperate post... thats a good idea.

thankyou so very much for doing this research for me and those pics you showed me were great... i think they look cramped too... i wouldn't want them so squished together, i really hope i can intergrate them into the larger tank.

i'm checking out that rainbow site now that i'm not running late for work (my last post was written at 7:00am and i'm surposed to leave for work at 6:45am lol)

i'm determined to make all my messy mistakes to work out eventually.

:D

hayley
 
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