Will my female Dutch Ram be OK or do I.....

[humerjeep]

Hi,
last week I purchased what I thought was a pair male/female Dutch Rams but on full inspection once in the tank found out I had two female, anyway the LFS took back one and I was advised that the last batch was perdominately female there was only one male but the LFS member of staff informed me that he wasn't to happy to exchange as he felt that the male wasn't looking 100%. A new batch should be arriving this week and I have been told one will be put aside for me.so I left with a credit note intending to return this weekend, I also left with a trio of Apistogramma Agassizii. As I have just reburbished my 3' tank heavly planted. with a lot of caves and dug out driftwood to accomidate two sets of breeding fish.

My 1st worry lies with the loner Ram, whom I swear was a Tetra/neon in her past live as she's quite happy to shoal with my Rummynoses and the Black neons on a regular basis, is that a normal behaviour within the aquarium environment, also she keeps straying into Agassizii quarters,and is being chased will this stress her out. Also it looks like the male is looking to taking over the whole tank.

I also think the one of the female Agassizii is showing signs that she is ready to spawn as her stomach is swollen and she is displaying a bright yellow colour with deeper black markings than the other female. Am I correct in my thinking (wasn't expecting this so soon as ther trio have only been in the tank for a few days). Cannot locate the 2nd female, I watch the tank on and off for the whole evening and thought I only glimpsed her once and that wasn't a definate sighting, do you think the female that looks ready to spawn is bulling her or is she just being cautious and keeping out the way. Or could I be in for a shock and shes already do the do :help:

My dilemma is should I not bother with getting the male ram and return the female, but if I do this what can I get to fill that space. At present my stocking level is as follows:

3 Corys which now are nearly out of sight , and are contented to frolic within the plant matter
5 Black Neons
8 Rummynose
1 Female Dutch ram
Visablity is now limited to the teras/neons and the loner ram, and special appearances now and again from the Corys and Agassizii

For surface dwellers looking to purchase either a shoal of Hatchets or killifish but waiting to purchase some floating plants first before buying any of the suface dwellers.

Advice how ever little would be gratefully appreciated

 

[mooman]

I would not expect a male agassizii to tolerate rams in a 36in tank. If it were heavily lanscaped it might work, but I would still expect the rams to lead a miserable existance. If the apistos spawn, the situation could quickly turn deadly. My experience with agassizii was that they were notably more reclusive than other apistos I've kept. This will get better after they've had a chance to settle in.

As for the yellow female. Yellow coloration is a sign of spawning, but it can also exibited by dominant females before they spawn. Although most apistos are classified as harem polygamists, I've found that this is hard to achieve in an aquarium situation. In a tank situation one female becomes dominant and picks on the other female(s). The male will also favor one female over the others and bully the nondominant female(s). In nature the females are very densly packed, and aggression is diffused over many individuals. I've attempted to create harems using adult fish in a 30in tank with as many as three females to one male with no success. I was able to achieve a stable harem using four juvinile females in a very well landscaped 30 in tank. The key, I believe, was in using sub-adult fish.

Your tank is slightly larger, and if it is heavily lanscaped you might me able to have multiple females hold territories. If you want to try this, I suggest trading in the rams and getting at least two more female aggies. If if works, you will have a situation where multiple females could spawn simultaneously. Then you might see females "stealing" other females fry (less chance of her own fry falling to predation). You might see females "giving" another female her fry (my spawn is so small there's no use in protecting them, I'll give them to this female, let her expend the effort to protect them, and I'll start conditioning myself for another spawn). Surely some of the most complex parental behavior in the cichlid world.

 

[Cathy G]

Dumb question...
What is a dutch ram?
Cath

 

[mooman]

Most likely a label applied by the LFS or wholesaler to the same old asian bred rams that comprise the VAST majority of those sold in stores. Advertising gimick.

 

[humerjeep]

Thank you Moorman,

I will do as you suggest and trade in the female ram and get 2 more females. The male does seem to have a greater intrest in the one displaying the colouration and visa versa as she is following him around like a puppy dog. Althought the tank is very heavly landscaped, I made sure of that when it was set up as my initally intentions was to have the pair of rams with another pair of breeding fish.It has plenty as of hiding places with tiered layer rock formations but the Ram seems to have no comonsense and I belive she is causing trouble on herself as she will get chase out of their space and will go right back. What I will do is transfer her to the spare tank this evening for her own safety as I will not be able to take her back to the LFS until the weekend, tempted to rehouse her there but then I feel If the Agassizii are so eager to spawn and introduce two more females before long the spare tank will have to be set up for the number of new edtion that I am expecting in the very near future.

You said I should get atleast 2 more females,how many in theory would be idea?
do you have any sites where I can obtain more indepth info on these fish. From the info you have provided to the info I have found for myself has been very limited as I was not aware of the factors you have stated. From what you have said I'm in for a nature lesson right in the comfort of my living room.
thank U once again

 

[humerjeep]

Hi Cath,
Good question i was just informed by the LFS that they have been breed in Europe and because of past experience I've had with the Asia breed Rams I decide to purchase these, have been inform that they are more hardy and not so much prone to diseases they are also full of colour compare to ones I have seen of lately that look very washed out, but I'm no expert so don't 100% quote me on that!

 

[mooman]

I would think four total females would be ideal, but three might work. It's very hard to say as personlities of individual fish can vary so much. Don't worry about new arrivals. You tetra schools will take care of them for you in a week or two. . If you do get that many females, your corries might start to get beat up. Your other option is to remove the odd female and just maintain a pair. If you're looking for another cichlid to add to the tank, I would suggest angel fish. they learn quick to stick to the top half of the tank, and seem quite content to do so.